Healer Utility and Monks

Lying awake last night, I started thinking about healer utility and then I began listing what major utility certain healers bring to a group or raid. Here’s what I’ve come up with:

  • Battle Rez - Druid, Paladin, Shaman (self-only, or Ancestral Prot totem)
  • Lust/Hero - Evoker, Shaman
  • Impactful Buff/Debuff - Druid, Monk, Priest
  • Group/raidwide DR - Paladin, Priest, Shaman
  • Group/raidwide Mana Restoration - Priest, Shaman
  • Group/raidwide Speed Boost - Druid, Evoker, Shaman

Half-considered, though not as impactful:

  • External DR (one player) - Druid, Evoker Paladin, Priest

  • Bleed Removal - Evoker

  • (edit to add) Mass Dispel - Priest, and Monks actually have this (albeit on a 3 min CD)

Looking at it like this, a clear pattern emerges. One of exclusion. Monk healer brings little impactful utility to a group. And, just to add insult to injury, we used to have bleed removal via Detox, but now Evoker has it in Cauterize.

This is all to say, major utility spread among healers is just not fair.

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The utility monk healers should bring is DAMAGE. One of the selling points of monk when MoP was being advertised was that it would be able to dmg and heal well at the same time.

To solve this, buff fistweaving damage and remove mistweaver casting. Believe it or not a healer with damage is good utility and can help lots of groups

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Monk brings revival, easily the best “oh sht” button in existence for an entire raid.
Don’t forget Mystic Touch.
Don’t forget ROP.

Next post thx

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Rewind would like a word.

BUT, to your (maybe) point, I didn’t include mass dispel. I will add it.

You posting this in every thread is basically becoming a meme at this point. Give it a rest.

Different people like to play this spec. It’ll be okay.

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What can i say, im fighting the good fight

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Okay, I’m with you… to a point, in that I believe in the power of melee healing, but I also understand that people have preferences and that should be allowed.

That said, I agree we bring damage, but it’s just not enough when we don’t have Lust or a Brez or a raidwide DR or a stat buff, even. And Disc brings more damage. Bringing damage is not healer utility.

Not in its current form, but it COULD BE if we had more talents and didnt waste them on caster mistweavers

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Except they never wanted monk healers to do “tons and tons of damage”; heck, they didn’t even intend for Monks to have an auto attack lol.

I believe the direct quote is “what we want to do with the monk healer is to try to have, experiment a little more with a healer that can stand up in melee. If you’ve ever played say atonement discipline priest, you can do a little bit of damage that drives your healing. We don’t expect monk healers are going to be doing tons and tons of damage, but we want to kind of experiment with a different type of healing style.”

Let’s not pick and choose here.

Lust and battle res are sometimes the things you fill last if you didn’t get them from DPS, so it’s a nice boon for a healer to have them even if they’re not that interesting by themselves and can be filled by other people.

Holy Priests in Shadowlands seemed to prove you don’t need either of those things to make it to the top though. They also have no DR external. It seems like every spec is just minor tuning changes away from being bottom or top if a holy priest can temporarily be the top healer in a M+ environment.

There are other useful utility at least in 5 mans to consider as well. Maybe people wouldn’t consider them major, but things like an interrupt and AoE stun can literally be the difference between a wipe or not in M+. IE: if someone doesn’t CC the imp groups in Court of Stars at higher levels (especially on Fort weeks) your group just got blown up. Quite of few things need to be interrupted in many dungeons.

AoE stuns are very useful. Monk has one. Leg Sweep is better than Tail Swipe or Incapacitating Roar (the closest equivalents from Evoker/Druid which I just mention since those are the top 2 healing specs atm). Evoker also has Terror of the Skies if talented, though that’s a 2m cd.

Monks having a melee interrupt is strong 5 man utility. Resto druids do not even spec into their interrupt most of the time because their tree just makes it hard to give other things up. Evoker interrupt is on a longer CD.

Ring of Peace can be used as a psuedo-interrupt against certain mobs and can be used in some useful ways to keep enraged mobs or spiteful etc away. I do think it would make sense to add an enrage dispel to this as well since it would fit thematically and enrage dispel is useful occasionally in M+.

Paralyze is more versatile than entangling roots and probably about the same as sleep walk (though most evokers don’t spec into sleep walk anyway where paralyze I think is more commonly taken). Paralyze can be used to stop some casts as well.

Song of Chi-Ji is not taken probably because of the competition with so many other talents you’d want, but I think it would have occasional usefulness if you could take it. Perhaps they should try making it a baseline MW ability?

I would have loved to see Legacy of the Emperor return as a Monk group buff, but I think the 5% physical damage debuff is probably why they weren’t given this back. Or the short range aura buffs in the general tree maybe. The group leech buff would have been huge but it was nerfed in beta to be a group healing received buff.

Tiger’s Lust isn’t huge, but having a single target speed buff is nice. Monk, Priest and Pally have this I think. Blessing of Freedom and Tiger’s Lust can also be used as a dispel for certain debuffs that happen to both deal damage and slow. In Shadowmoon as an example, there’s a disease from the bats that slows and damages people I believe (or it might be poison I forget). This kind of utility would have been bigger in expansions where tanks had to kite certain things.

When it comes to contributing damage in 5 mans, I think the ease of doing that is an important factor because you want to minimize GCDs spent on damage while still contributing. Disc/FWer are a bit different since there’s overlap between the DPS and healing. Druids can just dot things and do mildly useful damage (not breaking records though). Evokers damage is very bursty and they can fill with damage dealing living flames while fishing for essence burst procs. I think fistweaving can contribute quite a bit of damage, but it’s more GCD consuming, has the faeline + melee range limitations and I feel like it makes people feel a bit less in control of the healing aspect when there’s an emergency since there’s a significant amount of healing coming from “semi-smart” effects.

TLDR: lust and bres are important, especially when forming a 5 man, though holy priests made it to the top at one time without them + discussing various kinds of other utility that are useful in 5 mans

This is all good input, but you have to remember that mythic plus is not the only endgame PVE content. Raids also exist. I know it’s easy to forget. A lot of the utility we bring to a key isn’t terribly useful in raids, outside of some niche situations. I’m certainly not discounting how useful RoP and leg sweep are, but they’re not going to make or break a boss fight, usually, even in a key.

In a raid you are a lot less constrained on utility since so many specs can provide battle rez and Lust. If anything overall hps potential has even more consideration in raid scenarios then dungeons.

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Revival topping an entire raid and clearing all dots would like a word.

Infinitely better than both Rewind and MD for a CD.

And conveniently ignoring ROP and Touch.

Next post kthx

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Uh, my preliminary question is ‘how much mastery are we talking about here?’

Revival is a good CD, but topping everyone is a bit unusual.

Rewind is just overtuned, why that ability doesn’t have a cap is beyond me.

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I’m not sure how Mystic Touch doesn’t make the “impactful buff” list.

For dungeons monks bring a lot of disruption with a 15s interrupt, aoe stun, paralyze, and RoP.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but can’t Holy Priest do a Brez as well? Though it’s kinda different cos the priest has to die first.

RoP can be used to keep those little seeking stormling adds off the big colossal stormfiend add on Raz. ( the ones that heal them when they get to the larger elemental on the third

Why you no mention life cocoon? Or Life cocoon +150% talent that makes it shield for like a 350k-400k shield. Immensely strong talent on Broodmother to negate the tank buster/debuff entirely

Why no mention of diffuse magic being a second dispel making fights like
Sha in Jade temple cake.

Ive never seen it top everyone off from 0-100 but it will do a huge chunk of the raids health if “save them all” has kicked in and if you’ve spread EF’s and pop SG before revival for a lesson. Im too lazy to go look over logs but it’s a significant portion of health. I run high mastery though myself. Anyone who gets the mastery double via resplendent mists will deff be fully healed though.

Not to mention Revival clears things like broodmothers ice effect

Juicy heals :3

Correct, they can talent into a “If u ded u can make sum1 else not ded”

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I read the priest thing doesn’t actually count against your group battle res, though I’ve never had the chance to test it since I don’t play my priest that much. I also don’t think it’s instant cast, you have to actually cast a full cast-length res while in spirit, which cuts the total spirit uptime of actually doing any healing by a decent chunk.