Havoc talent tree DF (ideas)

Classes Demon Hunter
1

Havoc DH in it’s current iteration going into DF is in a very poor position overall. We have a baseline toolkit that you can count on one hand, with an extremely un-synergistic set of talents to pair with them. Not only is our baseline kit small, but it’s continued to dwindle since legion.
These are some things i’d like to see going forward into DF with the talent system. One thing i’d like to note about the talent system is that giving us baseline abilities as a “choice” is not okay or inventive in any way and doesn’t provide specs anything that they don’t already have. So this is going to focus more on system that works off of those base ideologies and abilities. having a tier within talent choices, up to 3 for talent points to go into, increasing in power, or adding utility to each talent choice the more points allocated.

Demonic should become baseline, this fixes one issue with have with no cooldowns allowing you to put something meaningful in it’s place.

Blade dance should be baseline:
Tier 1 Talent: increases damage to primary target by 30%.
Tier 2 Talent: Increases damage done to all targets by 50%. (note this shouldn’t be multiplicative of the 30% on the main target and only apply to further targets hit)
Tier 3 Talent: The final slash of Blade Dance creates an explosion of fel (Chaos Damage which effects our mastery) that damages all targets in a cone in front of you. for X% of mastery or whatever you will here.

Eyebeam: Remove SQRT Scaling on this ability as it’s our most iconic ability and does next to no damage and is currently used as a haste buff.
Tier 1: Eyes of Fury (untalented no increase to haste)
Tier 2: Chance to reset by 50%
Tier 3: Channeling this ability for a longer duration increases your demonic presence by up to a maximum of 3 seconds.

Immolation Aura:
Tier 1: Current immolation aura Conduit.
Tier 2: The initial explosion of Immolation does X% increased Damage up to a maximum of 80%. 10% per target hit, up to 8 targets.

Demonic Appetite: i think it goes without saying that cycle of hatred forces us into specific playstyles and feels horrible to play. Put the eyebeam reduction based on souls aquired through DA.
Tier 1: Souls Consumed reduce Eyebeam cooldown by X
Tier 2: (New ability) Consume up to 6 souls to unleash an explosion of Fel. (These souls will not reduce eyebeam CD) This gives us an optional CD that’s baked into a talent we already have.

Glaive Tempest:
Tier 1: Glaive Tempest (current itteration)
Tier 2: Bleed effect that increases crit chance based on targets hit up to 8 by X%

Momentum:
Tier 1: Talent (momentum)
Tier 2: Increases duration of Momentum buff by 4 seconds.

These are just some ideas that i would like to see in the havoc tree. Havocs tree is pretty small already and we will definitely need some heavy reworking going into Shadowlands with no borrowed power to “potentially” yes i say potentially because that’s how havoc has historically scraped by in the past. We need love in our baseline kit to be viable in DF. We need some burst AoE cooldowns, and we need tuning to our abilities that we already have to make sure that we stay competitive.

Note that this is obviously just ideas to help the devs hopefully with some inspiration for havoc going into the next expansion and in no way do i claim that these are all must have or even great ideas. These are just simple thoughts from someone that loves the class and has been through the steadily slow decline of his favorite class.

Thanks for reading, any comments are welcomed. This thread is for discussion, please no flaming.

2

Simple thing to do is rip off the warlock spells: more moves that provide AoE to other targets near the initial enemy targeted, a new AoE that comes from the player to enemies in 360 degrees that leeches orbs, speccing orbs to only gain more energy and less HP. A speccable fixation for AoE moves to either do greater DpS to single target or just plain DpS on 5 or less enemies.

Another flat AoE move that stuns the target or slow them down: stun for single target, slow for multiple targets. The possibilities are kind of endless. Just create more abilities than can fit on the base-line spellbar.

And don’t do any freaking borrowed power. Jeez.

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3

I like some of these ideas, particularly the blade dance ones. Blade dance is my favorite move in WoW period. It feels really bad to literally NOT HAVE IT ON MY BAR because it is so terrible. I used to go Night Fae with the hunt and all blade dance talents with momentum and it felt so good. However, due to Sinful Brand being sinfully OP, I’m just keeping the dot up and spamming chaos strike. Night fae build single target was 6.2k (fun build) Brand 8.5k sustained on dummy no buffs, which is clearly just better. For a playstyle that is…well, braindead. Like, more than hunter braindead.
TLDR: For the love of god please make blade dance do more than tickle without two talents and a conduit investment.

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4

I noticed they fixed the shoulder of our MT Mog… So nice of them to tell us…

5

Demonic Appetite has a limit on procs to about 6 per minute. Otherwise the amount of healing it produces would create a DPS tank. Souls heal for considerable amounts.

  • Does this mean less or more reduction?

Reviewing your logs for the last Mythic kills you had, I believe there is a slight reduction in procs, if we assume you are producing average/correct amounts of attacks then the proc rate is actually closer to 5.5 per minute. Actual reduction will be less due to having to pick up the fragment. Imagine phasing during Rygelon with several fragments up.

So at best no change, in practice this is a nerf relative to the current Cycle of Hatred talent.

  • Would this change actually achieve the stated goal of unlocking more choices?

As the proc from Demonic Appetite occurs when we hit with Chaos Strike, it would not change how Havoc plays without other changes also occurring.

  • Would there be any other balance issues?

It’s possible that this change which would see Havoc producing a significant amount of self-healing.

  • Would players like this?

No I don’t believe they would as not only would they need to Chaos Strike spam to generate soul fragments, they would need to be constantly in motion to pick up those fragments.

This would take care of the issue with having to pick up fragments.
This would be a large self-heal cooldown which will create significant balance issues for PvP and most forms of PvE.

6

You do know that we played this talent for the entirety of BFA right?

Not once did i mention PVP in my post. Why do people that pvp jusy auto assume things said without relating anything to pvp that it has to do with pvp? You know that blizzard is currently removing certain buffs that were pve based for pvp right? Go back to ur pvp threads.

Havoc has historically always been tanky, it is one of our strengths. We are far less tanky than we have been in the past currently.

7

But what would change from now?

Current: Sinful Brand is extended by Eye Beam and does a large amount of damage, it is extended in duration by Eye Beam damage. Chaos Strike when it procs and the player has the Cycle of Hatred talent reduces the remaining cooldown of Eye Beam by 3 seconds. More Eye Beam means more Sinful Brand uptime which means more damage. Therefore the best play is to use Chaos Strike in exclusion of all other attacks.

Your Idea: Sinful Brand is extended by Eye Beam and does a large amount of damage, it is extended in duration by Eye Beam damage. Chaos Strike when it procs and the player has the Demonic Appetite produces a lesser soul fragment, which upon pick up by the player reduces the remaining cooldown of Eye Beam. More Eye Beam means more Sinful Brand uptime which means more damage. Therefore the best play will be to use Chaos Strike in exclusion of all other attacks.

I wouldn’t mind this change to be honest, because that could allow for leaving soul fragments on the ground for pickup during the next Eye Beam cycle. I don’t see this change doing anything to actually modify how I would play.

8

what’s your obssesion with Sinful brand? every single time you make a comment you bring this ability up, NONE OF WHAT I SAID HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH SINFUL BRAND OR THIS EXPANSION BTW. I have to wonder just what’s between your eyes.

Sinful brand can choke on shadowlands dust for all i care. take this ability and dumpster it, fire the dev that implemented it too. At this point i wonder if it’s you, because all you do is defend SB.

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9

I played DH in legion, Nighthold specifically, and I really liked that version of it, with Demon Blades generating fury and Blade Dance being your big Dump. Eye Beam meta was fun too for minietas, bit honestly I think Meta is simply too strong a CD with too long a CD. Would like to see some interesting talents that prop up sustained damage through auto attacks, enchanting blades with fire to deal mixed damage, etc.

It think DH is probably too tanky for how mobile it is and how much sustain they get through Leech, but that might be a poor take. I think a good niche for Havoc DH is priority target switching, sustained single target damage, high mobility, and medium CD AOE burst.

10

Havoc talent tree idea: please do not add any version of sinful brand

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11

havoc currently has no niche, our niche used to be AoE/Sustained cleave but blizzard has stripped us entirely since legion. We have no AoE burst CD’s and our primary abilities haven’t been tuned in quite some time so we heavily rely on the uptime of a covenant dot to do any damage. This works on ST if you can maintain uptime, but in AoE that dot has no time to tick before it’s bursted through by every other class in the game.

12

Class design has been horrible all of Shadowlands, sad to see DH has been suffering as well. Cautiously optimistic about DF and the talent trees, but if DH has been propped up by a single target DOT, and all PvE DH have been using it, then I wouldnt be surprised to see it make an unwelcome return in the form of a keystone talent.

The Hunt is the coolest ability from SL though, so maybe Blizz will bring that along. Good luck.

13

Hes high on SB man, clearly he doesnt see that our damage sucks

14

I would be down for a modified version of Chaos Brand that deals Chaos Damage vs Shadow… That would make MASTERY, useful.

15

Mastery is a pipe dream unless they make all of our abilities do chaos damage

16

… Thats how it should’ve been since Legion…

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17

Bring back legion chaos blades. Havoc could really use some on demand burst damage.