rather, she is more grateful for her vanilla style because she is not together with the Demon Blades talent with immolation aura, just to get one, so having more nerf to DH, than an excellent combat style that was seen in Legion.
so that it looks different from Havoc, it would be the use of a new talent, much like pet control like the DK unholy talent or a stealth type Rogue Assasins or subtlety as a third special talent for DH.
apart that I would use DH daggers in previous Legion before of the 7.3
Ty for saying and recognizing that. The Forums are of course a place for discussion and differing opinions. As long as you are able to give and take. For how can we seek to understand if we leave no room to be understood? Makes you all square with the house imo. Classy move Haugs.
I’ll be commenting without quoting anything specifically because there was too much stuff happening when I was gone and I’m on my phone, so here it is:
Well, OP keeps saying that he wanted some stuff other classes have that we don’t, but we have something that other melees don’t too. We have active, no cooldown resource generation and the option to talent into passive if we wish to, that’s good.
Eyes of Rage soul part used to be baseline and way more powerful than it is currently (it used to be 5s reduction per soul to both Eye Beam and Chaos Nova), but was mitigated a bit with Eye Beam 15s reduction to its cooldown, so I think this is a clear candidate for the unprunning. Yes, Azerite was a mistake.
Current talent trees have been regarded as a major design failure by the vast majority of the playerbase across all classes. Havoc currently has 7 dead talents and talents that should be baseline, namely Immolation Aura, First Blood and Demonic. First Blood especially feels like mandatory because it feels horrible to play without it and because the other 2 options are part of the 7 dead ones.
Now reiterating this part, OP complained about Havoc being simplistic and to be fair, I believe everyone agrees with that. The thing is, this is not in any way exclusive to Havoc. The majority of specs right now are just as simple and some even simpler, save a few. Complex rotations are not part of Blizzard’s design philosophy for this expansion.
Unfortunately, I think the “this expansion” qualifier on there being unreasonably optimistic. I don’t think complex rotations are part of Blizzard’s design philosophy for the foreseeable future. They are simply targeted a different demographic than WoW initially targeted.
This is the same demographic for which reading the literally 2-3 sentence synopsis/cliff notes guide in the Encounter Journal before doing LFR is simply too much work. The rotations need to be simple enough that a random person with next to zero knowledge of the class or spec can infer something approximating a rotation simply from reading the 4-6 tooltips and the spec description on the spec selection pane of the talent window, and for that rotation to do enough that the person doesn’t feel overwhelmingly inferior in groups or unable to manage in solo content.
Stop spamming the DH forums because you got your butt beat in pvp. This was a discussion about current class mechanics. Go qq somewhere else.
I’m hoping that we’ll get another button or two in BL to give the class a little more flavor, hopefully from the Legion artifact. But also, yeah, not counting on much.
Agreed. Too many dead talents. To be fair, though, there are often cookie cutter builds that people spec into. The difference is that our talents aren’t modifying a toolkit that inherently has a decent number of abilities and synergistic mechanics. We have to take a particular build, and the extent of that talent build’s synergy (excluding azerite) is that eye beam causes meta and meta buffs the damage of our two abilities. We’re still pressing the same buttons the entire fight with this synergy, it’s just we might be pressing our buttons a lil harder cause we feel cool in meta.
I do want to clarify that when I say things like “I want a more complex/meaningful rotation”, I’m not saying I necessarily have a problem with the current damage rotation design philosophy of blizzard. In my opinion, five - seven frequently pressed buttons in a damaging rotation is plenty engaging, especially when they synergize. I think that’s fine, because if the rotation is too complex we might be required to use so much brainpower on the rotation that we lose focus on other gameplay elements in raids or arenas (anywhere, really). What usually separates players from each other isn’t just dps/hps, it’s attention to mechanics, and it’s the ability to do high dps/hps while managing the mechanics.
Whenever I use the word “complex”, I’m not trying to say I like complexity for the sake of complexity. I mean it strictly in the context of havoc demon hunters as they currently operate. I want them to be more relatively complex than they are, but not to the degree I think other people think I want haha.
You are 1600 with 150 games played. When you’re bad, everything is “broken”. rmpala is the strongest comp in the game currently. Rogue/mage has been the or one of the strongest comp choices since the dawn of arena. if you’re complaining about dh’s with a 1600 rating, you don’t know what you’re doing.
This is basically what I’ve wanted to say all along, without all the contentious remarks, and in much fewer words.
The difference between us, Haugs, is you want to completely want to redo the core mechanics of the spec whereas I like the spec as is and would be good with another flavor-type ability… Which you would know, if you had actually bothered to read any of my - or anyone else’s - posts (which, by your own admission, you didn’t bother to do) instead of getting all haughty on us.
Not necessarily, Sienge. Sure, I want our core mechanics to possess synergy without the need for azerite traits, but I’m not asking for an all-out revamp of the class. I’ve thrown out some ideas that might fix some of my issues for the class. Those ideas were an open invitation for criticism, but were not primary point of my post, as I’ve said multiple times.
yes, that is exactly what i want.
I didn’t say I didn’t read the posts. I said I understand where i came off as elitest.
Where we’re at now in the conversation is i agreed with what you were saying, and you’re currently being “haughty” with me. Move on?
You see, every class, I mean EVERY class currently needs azerite traits to function competitively and this is the design philosophy for this expansion. A crappy one? Absolutely. But this is what we have for now.
Some of these traits were removed from the core of the class in Legion and put into rental pieces of gear that we have right now. In Havoc’s case those are Eyes of Rage and Chaotic Transformation. Your complaint here however, is pretty much universal for every class as we hope some, possibly all, of these traits are made baseline coming the next expansion.
Our rotation currently has 5 buttons actually. Demonic Appetite build has Demon’s Bite, Chaos Strike, Blade Dance, Eye Beam and Immolation Aura as the last two have their cooldowns considerably reduced in the form of Haste and picking up Souls.
Demon’s Blade build also has 5: Fel Blade, Chaos Strike, Blade Dance, Throw Glaive and Eye Beam. You can also use Fel Rush on dead globals for absolutely maximum DPS.
To be fair here, several people voiced this same opinion across multiple posts on this thread, myself included maybe more than once, so I get where Siengé is coming from.
I agree that what of the class is lackluster right now totally comes from this. Granted, that’s a blanket statement across every class. The loss of the Legion artifact abilities left a gaping hole in a lot of classes. I do still find hDH more fun to play than the other classes (hence my changing of mains after 14 years of combat, erm, outlaw rogue-ing), but the loss of the artifact traits hurt every single spec in the game.
This “borrowed power” is a newer thing that hopefully when we lose our HoA and azerite traits in the prepatch will be a little less shell shock. Even without those things, I don’t feel that any class is “missing” anything though, but those powers add on a whole lot. Next expansion we’ll have a whole new system to invest in. Blizz alluded to feeling just as powerful, so I’m curious just how much will become baseline.
That’s… that’s what I just said? Azerite came to patch that hole, but did a poor job in doing so. Very poor, actually. If you take Azerite as it is now, it’s not going to be as big as an impact when Artifacts were removed, that’s for sure, but it’s still going to leave a bitter aftertaste if some of those traits are not made baseline for all classes.
I’m pretty excited to see what’s to come for us in Shadowlands, but we are also getting another major “borrowed power” system and that’s one of the cons for me.
I have mixed feelings about them, really. I didn’t play wod or legion but I already feel way more powerful than I ever have at the end of an expansion and we still have another patch cycle. I know a lot of people aren’t too happy with it, but in comparison to run the same dungeon/raid ad nauseum I think it’s pretty good. I’m sure if I did play in legion however I’d be a little skewed in that opinion but it just feels different to me than the previous.
I also want reforging back, but do you remember the reason why Blizzard removed reforging? Well, at least the reason they gave us?
A.: Because reforging didn’t actually give us a choice. Because we would always look it up on guides or use third party tools to optimize our stats.
This is the most ridiculous answer I have ever seen, honestly. What do we do today? What is the advice people give (actually good advice) when others ask about stat priority or whatever? Sim yourself. Always sim yourself. We are more dependent on third party tools than we ever were with this slot machine bs gearing system.
On top of 30+ ilvl random upgrade titanforging, random sockets must be the most bs idea Blizzard ever had for WoW’s gearing system.
That was their justification. But peeps were stacking stats that Blizz didn’t want or intend (which is dumb because they wrote the codes and presented the stat choices). Making toons more powerful than the parameters they wanted to maintain and control. It was a great system, working as intended. But they had the stat squish looming so of course they got rid of it.
