Havoc DH Shadowlands Wishlist

Classes Demon Hunter
21

Yeah, but I think we both know erratic core was designed with momentum in mind

Tbh I’m a little concerned about having an aoe ms altogether. Literally no one in the pvp community is happy about DH’s being given ms, except for DH’s of course haha. Aoe ms is really, really powerful. As much as I like having it, I don’t personally think we should have it. Felblade would correct this issue, actually.

Right, but the talent does enhance/augment our baseline by giving us an additional button to press. It’s just that no legendary can specifically target it, because we might not take it. When legendaries target baseline abilities, you have the abilities. You then just have to decide which legendary best enhances the play style you want, and how that play style changes what you do with your baseline.

Right, that’s the context I’m discussing. It was in answer to your point that felblade may not necessarily displace us, which is why blizzard may be leaning towards fel rush for momentum

Sure, there’s always unique situations. Generally (and ideally), my thoughts would be you killed the add, pooled a good amount of fury, such that when you’re returning to the boss, you felblade, and away you go

Right, but they don’t involve moment, so they don’t check that box. Though, I’m having some doubts about felblade generating fury as a baseline

See above

I mean I really am on board with us “darting around the battlefield”, so I kinda want momentum to remain as a talent that enforces that fantasy. It just can’t be fel rush. It has to be more controlled movement, and I feel like felblade is just the only way.
Hell, felblade’s animation could be reworked. Make it like a mini death from above, or whatever that rogue ability is called, where the rogue jumps in the air and charges down. This would work whether we displace or not. Granted, we wouldn’t want this to take longer than a global, so it may be an impossible design. I really do think felblade is the way. Implementation is just difficult.

It’s actually concerning that blizzard themselves call that an aoe row, haha. It is no more an aoe row than it is a ST row. I’d make the argument it’s actually geared more towards ST than aoe

That’s actually kinda concerning. I haven’t paid too much attention to legendaries but being primarily aoe focused is much less influential in pvp, and isn’t great in ST fights.
Yeah, the paradox of chaos theory vs first blood vs essence break is… well, it’d be hilarious if it wasn’t so tragic haha

Doesn’t that speak volumes? Like, please, blizzard. We’ll take anything just give us more buttons, haha.

That’s the thing though. I think we should have a baseline proc chance, but I don’t like the proc being baked into a fury generator, cause it doesn’t feel that exciting or rewarding. Plus, it proc’ing when we’re capped on fury feels awful. That’s why I think blade dance should get the procs, and felblade should be reworked to having two charges (effectively replacing fel rush)

So what do you think of my idea that, instead of it baseline generating fury, it actually applies a debuff to the target that is a chaos dot and also provides the blade dance proc chance? Only if it’s talented will it provide fury as it does now, and even then, that isn’t necessary DA could still be a viable talent choice for momentum. Blind fury probably less so

22

I think it’s a fine addition to fel blade. It gives it a reason to press it and something else for us to consider. I like the idea of the blade dance proc.
I’d prefer if it just put a buff on you when fel blade is used. That’s part of the reason I don’t really ever play a warlock or spriest is because I’m not a huge fan of dot or debuff management. It’s also why I’m not a huge fan of Essence Break.

23

I mean, they explicitly described it as an “AoE row” when they were talking about the new Cycle:

I don’t really see their reasoning (First Blood is clearly a single target talent, it barely benefits AoE), but hey, w/e. If they think that row is AoE, might as well stick with that, I guess.

Nope, that would actually be rather appropriate:

  • Unholy rows 25 and 45
  • Shadow rows 30 and 40 (with an option in each that literally does nothing in ST)
  • Arcane rows 35 and 45
  • Frost (DK) rows 35 and 45
  • Enhancement rows 35 and 45

And those are just the ones that are unquestionably AoE-centered row:

  • MM’s row 25 is rather strikingly an AoE row, but their row 50 also heavily benefits AoE (with one talent being specifically an AoE talent that just happens to also be worth using in single target).
  • SV’s row 25 is an AoE row, but 2 of the 3 talents on row 50 are themed around AoE, and all 3 benefit AoE.
  • Fire’s row 45 is AoE, and like SV, 2 of the 3 talents on row 35 are themed around AoE and all 3 benefit it.
  • Elemental’s row 35 is somewhat focused around AoE, and all 3 talents on row 50 arguably benefit AoE far more than single target due to the nature of Elemental overloads in AoE vs ST.
  • Affliction’s row 35 is their AoE row. However, due to the Malefic Rapture being Aff’s AoE spender as well as single target, all 3 traits on the level 50 row also buff their AoE. Same for Destro, actually, 35 row is AoE, 50 all benefits AoE (with one specifically themed around it).

So ya, having 2 AoE-centered rows on an AoE-centered spec kinda makes sense. It’s not really that uncommon, tbh, especially when you have Trail in the mix being only kinda an AoE-centered talent (rather like Unholy’s Ebon Fever is only kinda AoE-centered).

Fel Barrage serves it’s purpose, and is distinct enough from Glaive Tempest, imo. Much longer CD, in theory much higher damage (not in practice, at current tuning), channeled ability that does more and more total damage as your haste increases. It serves as our ultimate AoE burst cooldown. It just needs to compete with other AoE options.

Hell if I know, but it’s one of the more common asks, so I figure why not. Some peeps clearly see something in it that you and I don’t, so w/e. It’s at least an AoE-focused option.

Just having the slow there would be pretty pitiful. That talent is so rarely taken as is, and only ever for the second charge. In nearly every other situation, Fel Eruption or Unleashed Power is going to be more useful.

It needs to be a utility/control effect with similar punch. Perhaps your concept talent would work here:

You’re specifically giving up a single target stun and a free and more often available AoE stun to get that, so I feel like that balances. Two talents allow you to control others better, the last makes it more difficult to control you. All 3 have niche/situational usage in PvE, and all 3 have arguments in their favor in PvP depending on the specific type.

1 Like
24

Yeah, I get that. My thoughts are that it has to be given utility to make it unique and worthy of being pressed in the rotation without overtly stomping on another ability like demon’s bite. Taking the baseline blade dance proc as I designed it makes sense.

Then, I thought “debuff, or buff?”
Well, as a buff, it might feel like too much. We already have demonic providing a buff, and now we have furious gaze. If talented, we’d also have momentum. What we don’t have is a debuff. Also thought it’d be cool to apply the dot to primary target, then watch it spread with a fel cleave, then watch blade dance procs light up in aoe fights. Beyond that, it’s really not too hard to keep up the dot. Hardly any more difficult than maintaining the buff. Only difference, really, is in aoe fights. Even then, it’s basically just spread after a single fel cleave.

Still, I see how the buff could be more appealing

25

Call me crazy, but I was happy with things right now. I do miss Chaos Blades, I would bring that back.

Also, for the wish list, more glyphs. Ain’t no reason we don’t have more shadow flame glyphs.

26

First blood is still a talent
Momentum is still contingent upon fel rushing
we have no baseline ability synergy, buff/debuff/proc mechanics.

Edit: Sure, we have furious gaze, buuut really it’s just a side effect of using an ability we’d already be pressing, and there’s no direct synergy there. it’s not anything we actively manage. it’s a nice addition, but we still need a little more. Demonic being baseline would be great. Having a proc as i mentioned in the wishlist would be great too.

You’re crazy

Sure, though I’d want more green/fel glyphs than shadowflame, tbh. Both would be cool though

27

So, take the talent. If you make it baseline, then your adding more power with a new talent to take. Unless you want to remove the tier. DH are good place (or used to be).

Plenty of other classes I can deal with procs. I’m happy with something closer to what WoW once was.

28

That’s exactly what i suggested. The tier is removed and replaced with a mobility tier.

Procs provide an interactive synergy among abilities. Obviously this is personal preference, but procs are my absolute favorite element in a damaging rotation. It’s really a bummer not having one as a baseline.

29

“Power” is subject to tuning, and every class and spec gets fully retuned with each expansion. Moving a talent baseline doesn’t have to be compensated by anything. That “power” is taken into account when they do our overall DPS tuning.

3 Likes
30

This thread makes me laugh…you realize there is a release date yea?

Nothing is going to change except numbers tuning. DH on Beta is what’s going to be. Better be prepared.

31

You realize this is a wishlist “yea”?

You say that with 100% certainty. Again, this is a wishlist. That being said, I’m not so confident that additional changes won’t be made

32

Unfortunately, I am. I was gearing up to be a hunter at the start of BfA, when the devs set a release date and went into “feature freeze” mode, where only tuning happened prior to release. And the message we got was that we were out of luck until 8.1.

And yep, that’s how long it took before MM got even some of the changes they should have had before even release.

Once they’re in that last month before the prepatch, the changes are simply done. You might see a few after the prepatch launches and before release, but I wouldn’t hold my breath for anything to change substantially before 9.1. That’s simply Blizzard’s development model.

33

My statement didn’t contain a time constraint, nor is the OP really concerned with it being implemented pre-shadowlands.

I mean, it’d be nice, but if it targets what I think is wrong with the class and the solutions provided are reasonable to myself and others, I’d say that’s a good thing.

There’s a lot of stuff I’m excited for in shadowlands, particularly pvp, but there’s still significant room for improvement.

Would love to see a lot of these changes implemented at some point or another. If not before shadowlands, at some point during.

34

Sadly, there’s basically zero chance of changes of that magnitude happening mid-expansion. I think I can count on about half a hand the number of times they’ve done changes even a fraction as significant as that mid-expansion.

35

MoP patch 5.2 rogue changes were the last time I can personally remember big changes to rogues during an expansion. We were in a bad spot at the start of MoP. We were considered (subtlety spec) OP at the end of Cata and had many nerfs to the class heading into the launch of MoP. 5.2 made some significant adjustments/changes/reverts to abilities along with some new talents - Marked for Death and Cloak & Dagger among others as well.

36

Ah well, what can ya do