Okay, this (and many people, I think) I could get behind. However, DH does NOT need defensive buffs whatsoever. DH is a viable kill target where it hasn’t been in previous seasons, but that doesn’t mean it has bad defensives.
DH should NOT be able to mindlessly W key all game (nor should any class).
Just because it can’t do that doesn’t change the fact that DH DOES have solid defensives.
agreed, every class should require your monitor on
You are a menace.
This is the data.
And this is your opinion.
So let me get this straight, do you not think it is a fundamental principle in WoW PvP to target specs with weak defensives/survivability over those that are a lot tankier and defensive?
If you see a Fire mage and a Outlaw rogue in a 3s match, and let’s say everyone in the match is trading cd’s correctly and not making very many obvious misplays; do you not objectively think that you should make proper plays to try and widdle away at the mage’s defensives/get cd trades and sit the Fire mage over the Outlaw rogue?
Like what about using fundamental gameplay strategies that have been in the game for over a decade now is an opinion?
Like idk if you’re just trying to get a certain reaction or what. You have 3 people here actively in this discussion stating Havoc is not defensively weak overall, bringing facts, examples, and data evidence to explain this and break it down.
Yet you’re solely focused on me overall, just flagrantly ignoring anything of substance that is being said over the whole discussion by not just me, but everyone else that shares the same opinion as me.
But your response to that has been essentially just denial while not bringing next to anything productive to the conversation itself.
Like yes it’s data, very good. It’s data that represents kill targets and deaths in rated PvP. Typically in PvP the squisher specs are the ones that die first, that’s not a ground breaking discovery dude. When Havoc DH isn’t being focused as first priority kill target for approximately 68.6% of their matches, that is conclusive of their defensive strength overall.
I have agreed that Havoc sustained dps outside of their burst could use a slight buff to be in line with other specs (that’s an opinion), but the defensive argument here is over, nail has been in the coffin since last night.
Would be fun asf to see, but definitely a public enemy comp🤣
All of it is opinion.
Here’s mine: I want more damage outside burst, and I want my leech back.
I think it’d be nice to get some leech back, too.
Because it is an opinion
Are you trying to act like Mage doesn’t become tankier every single expansion?
Classic - Ice block, Blink, Frost Nova
Retail - Ice block x2, alter, blink up to 4 times back to back, multiple roots other than frost nova, knockback, 60% invisibility wall shield
Now add an Hpal to that mix with freedoms, bops, sacs and pve healing
Explain how exactly any melee class would want to sit on the Mage?
Because a majority of melee dps have a majority of their rotation function from ranged. Also, while mage had a lot of strong mobility options, their overall “passive” tankiness and healing is very low. Further, all mage specs need to cast to get meaningful damage out, meaning that going them can stop the damage.
I don’t think that mage is a good target for melee to train, obviously, but ignoring them is just as bad if not worse.
Warrior does 0 dmg if not in melee range
Windwalker does 0 dmg if not in melee range
Sub Rogue does 0 dmg if not in melee range
DH does 0 dmg if not in melee (unless u count a 20k dmg throw glaive lmao)
Frost DK does 0 dmg if not in melee
Rest have some form of DoTs like Garrotes and Feral Bleeds
And a few have actual ranged damage like Ret, Survival and UHDK
Both arms and fury have bleeds even if they’re not great.
Has rupture and it’s not terrible
Sigils are ranged too? Plus we have the burning wound thing I’ve got to tick for 200k a thing, it still ticks if someone walks away from us.
Prekicking a complaint but all of those other bleeds outside of UHDK have to be applied in melee too.
Yes and all those get eaten up by a single disc priest shield or a random healer heal over time
or a simple mage shield
for melees to do effective damage they need to connect to their target
by the same logic a warlock can get kicked 15 times in a game, still get instant damage off, but not move anybody’s health bar
its about relevant damage, not filler globals that nobody cares about
lol no on this, mage defensive get shredded through pretty quickly.
Why mention this then?
Don’t goalpost move.
Also nobody is denying ever that melee dps need uptime to get their rotation out and create pressure so not sure what exactly you’re arguing.
You can hunt, eyebeam, glaive, sigil from afar. Only thing you can’t really do is blade dance, chaos strike, and hit people with immo aura.
Most melee are half ranged now outside of warrior and ww.
does 8% of ppls health as a 90 second CD
does absolutely nothing if it does not hit all ticks, which require close range, if a guy is far he can just outrange is simply because u root urself while doing it
sigil also ticks for pretty irrelevant damage and nobody is going to press any button for it
which is your entire actual damage kit
a real ranged melee is ret
because u do real damage from afar
not poke people for 1 to 4% of their hp
Hunt into stun into eyebeam into blade dance can 100-0 someone if stuff crits, I’ve gotten a 1.4m hunt just the other day.
It’s never going back to shadowlands levels of globalling someone
Doesn’t mean it’s not exclusively melee range, hits like 15 yards.
Don’t move the goal posts.
Some run Elysian decree which not only gives souls but also can hit hard.
Plus we also have a ton of our utility in ranged abilities.
Ret is gross and needs most of that tuned lol
Can your class be completely disabled by silences, stuns, and disarms that dont stack on DR? If so, your class might be a joke.
Fury does nothing outside melee range and Arms just does nothing.
havoc is still dogwater wtb sustained damage buffs ty
It honestly puts you in a weird frame of mind. On one hand, I don’t think anything should be less than viable and ideally everything evenly good (I know this will never happen), but I also have flashbacks of me not even being touched while I stand and PVE heal as hard as I possibly can and my DPS just gets consumed by DH regardless, or I go OOM in under 90 seconds, which really makes me dislike the idea of them being good.
Like, you want to be a fair person, but you can’t help but recall how miserable something made playing the game when it was on top.