Beside of the numbers of damage/leech/etc…
What is your opinion about the gameplay of now vs Legion/bfa, better or not? Synergic or not? Fun or not.
Opinions, thought?
Are you happy with just some damage buffs/nerf tuning?
Beside of the numbers of damage/leech/etc…
What is your opinion about the gameplay of now vs Legion/bfa, better or not? Synergic or not? Fun or not.
Opinions, thought?
Are you happy with just some damage buffs/nerf tuning?
Reading through a few threads on this forum will give you a pretty clear picture I’d say…
Yes and virtually none of these people are providing actual feedback.
There’s whining, which is complaining without providing a semblance of reasoning, and there’s feedback, which is explaining the why.
As far as how the class plays and the buttons you press in pve, there is virtually no difference in SL vs BFA.
A lot of people talk about how you have to pick cycle of hatred.
A lot of people have not simmed their character and have no idea what they’re talking about. Still, if you pick cycle, you’ll take glaive tempest. You lose blade dance and gain glaive tempest. Fundamentally these two abilities are hardly any different. Neither of them provide any sort of interaction to the rotation. You simply press them when they’re off cd.
Reality is the class got hit with nerfs to our passive utility/survivability. Beyond that, our damage output has suffered, which isn’t great, but blizzard is clearly aware of it considering the hotfixes that will be implemented this coming Tuesday.
Shadowlands is a far better expansion than BFA ever was. The DH class isn’t much different as far as how it plays is concerned. Still, it’s a better design iteration when you look at furious gaze being baseline and the varying options we have in borrowed powers to further customize our character
"Still, if you pick cycle, you’ll take glaive tempest. You lose blade dance and gain glaive tempest. Fundamentally these two abilities are hardly any different. "
This is really true. I even simmed the talents people keep talking about, and it is a difference of a whopping THIRTY dps /me circles finger in the air
There’s a base problem. I can’t tell you what it is, but it’s there, and it is FELT.
In BFA we had a lot of borrowed power, azerite traits really gave us some really good perks on a abilities that played well together. Without them, things just feel clunky.
This is absolutely true, and I’ll tell you what I think it is.
First, though, what I think a lot of people forget is that it has always been this way. DH’s have always had a trash baseline that’s been propped up by borrowed powers. The issue simply becomes more apparent when you move from one expansion to the next. Obviously kib’s wowhead guide put in words what a lot of people knew or felt already.
Problem with the havoc Dh baseline in my opinion is that it has no design, no mechanical/rotational, and no synergistic core.
Basically, try thinking about it this way:
Answers to 2-4 are:
2) it’s not
3) None, really, because there is no core
4) absolutely none
An example solution would be making demonic baseline (as one of many ideas). I’m not necessarily saying that I would want this or that it’s the greatest fix that occur, but here’s how it fixes the above issues
An agile melee class who uses devastating chaos magic and demonic transformation to overwhelm her foes
Demonic is baseline, so our demonic transformation is central to our rotation
personally, I’d like a new ability introduced entirely to our rotation. Consider something like an instant cast chaos bolt. In Warcraft 3, demonic transformation would cause you to become a ranged spell caster, and in the Illidan novel, DH’s were throwing around fel bolts (I believe that’s what they were called). So, give us a 30 yard ranged fel bolt that deals chaos damage. 1-2 charges, ten second cooldown. This benefits our mastery, and is a legion-like magical ability. Give it a dot component, and buff its damage or give it a meaningful modifier while in demon form
Beyond the active ability, passive synergies are how you really bring it all together.
As a a couple examples:
make cycle of hatred baseline, and make it contingent upon fury spent. That way, all of our damage dealing abilities now have synergy with our core (eye beam / demonic transformation), because they reduce its cooldown. Basically a copy cat of a subtlety rogue’s deepening shadows.
Make chaos strike have a chance to reset the cooldown of fel bolt. Also, chaos strike could potentially have a modifier to the dot from fel bolt (or perhaps this could be a talent)
With all the above you have a known core fantasy of demonic transformation, you have abilities that benefit from it, you have a new ability you press somewhat frequently that captivates demonic magic, and you have passive ability synergy. Effectively, you have a baseline.
Losing the thirsting blades azerite trait, whatever trait it was the lower the cost of blade dance by how many people it hit, and memory of lucid dreams really hurt us in terms on DPS. Not being able to use enough of our spenders vs builders i the big problem for DH atm and not it’s straight up damage.
Also giving us less time on demonic was a bad idea. return it to 8 seconds.
Yes, losing borrowed powers feels bad.
? This is not an issue I’ve noticed
Completly agree on demonic being baseline and returning it to 8 sec too. I also like the felbolt idea too. Betrayer’s thirst (illidan basic passive in heroes of the storm) would be an awsome ability to have( basic attack reduces abilities cooldown by 1 sec, that way demonic could stay a 6 sec).
Using very few spenders before you run out of fury isn’t something you’ve noticed? It feels like there’s too much downtime of resource building than using our actual good abilities. Like our rotation doesn’t flow enough.
I play demon blades and felblade haha (sims highest by a decent margin), so I can’t really confirm your experience.
Though the common builds are either 33 or 11. Idk if you play insatiable hunger but it might help a bit
I’ve been using either demon blades or insatiable hunger in raids just to test them out. If i’m using Hunger it feels like i’m using it too much still and demon blades i come to a lot of just standing there waiting. It’s just annoying to get barely any spenders out of a full bar of fury because no procs go off.
Worst, it is literally same talent and ability from BFA but much weaker now. Nothing new, only we had 2 passive azerite trait and legion artifact ability
Losing the leech really hurts, Going from 100% meta leech to 50% now to 25% is horrible then the passive leech is a piddly 5% when rogue who has 309388390 different CC have 10% passive if they want. We also lose our passive dodge and then darkness is only 20% compared to other classes basic 100% dodge/parry type skills doesn’t even make sense.
meta gave 100% leech?! That’s broken. How it was before prepatch was fine. idk why it got cut so hard with all of our defenses.
It was in legion
BFA Havoc was much better. Our spec needs more haste to feel good.
The AoE cap, removal of eyes of rage, and nerfs across the board are incredibly foolish. Our class has precisely zero cyclical scaling, meaning while other specs scale exponentially we scale linearly.
It feels like Legion’s Emerald Nightmare builds before optimal legendaries gameplay wise to me. Not sure why you’d lose Blade dance when choosing Tempest, unless your taking something other then First Blood on row 5. Which doesn’t seem optimal to me.
I liked my DH in legion and BFA. Right now I still like him but for pvp I die way to fast/easy. Darkness I feel like its bugged and the 70% absorb damage chance isnt working. Hoping to see a patch saying hey sorry darkness pvp talent was bugged and is now corrected.
As for pve its okay far from the top where we used to be. I feel and this is just my opinion I am sitting around spamming demons bite for 300 damage because nothing is off cd. Outside of eyebeams and glaivetemp nothing else really does much damage again imo.
I started to mess around with veng spec and well my veng spec does more dps and has way more surv than my havoc spec which is a total shame.
Blur sucks darkness is to rng and well you can still die in both your def to most classes. Id like to see blur being better and the rng of darkness to just be a base 50% or 70% dam reduc. Leech is kinda meh atm outside of meta the 5% does nothing.
But if they continue to nerf other classes and not touch us we will slide up the scale so thats good. The class is still fun though, gliding jumping off stuff to escape people in open world is a blast. Give it a try you might like it.
DH is in a weird spot right now.
We aren’t in the worst position in the world, but we also aren’t in the best. The leech nerf is easy enough to get around by running NF since the hunt gives a 25% leech of all damage for 30 seconds, which helps tremendously with soloing elites in the Maw.
In our raids this week myself and our other Havoc DH have been in the top 7 DPS on every fight so I think this is more of an issue of community perception than anything.
5% will help, but we will have to see where things go from here.
Single target raid still felt bad. Middle-ish bottom on that. Packs of AoE trash mobs? Smokin’ the rest of the dps.
That’s the thing though. We pretty much knew it would be that way. We aren’t crap in an AoE/Cleave situation, we are crap at long term single-target. 5% of crap is still crap.
They really need to address the base of how the class works instead of a lazy bandaid/blanket solution. We got away with it before because we always had borrowed power, now we don’t.