Note: edited the title from “dev communication” to Havoc 11.0.5 Feedback and moved it from DH category to 11.0.5 PTR on Sep 12. Also added additional thoughts on the Focused Hatred change.
Focused Hatred change: Most people suggested simply changing it to primary target, though some (self included) did also suggest the “For whom the bell tolls” treatment as a potential alternative which is pretty much what this is. This is AMAZING for important cleave (silken court) while also meaning we don’t lose as much damage on our primary target, and is actually an overall dps increase in small target counts over just making it primary target. That being said, the reason most people suggested primary target is because there are often times when you do not care at all about the little adds but really want to burst down one guy (think the summoner mob in Necrotic Wake this season as an example). With the “for whom the bell tolls” version, the important enemy gets hit with little to none of the bonus damage because of all the little adds while a “primary target” version would allow you to burst down your main target. A primary target version also would allow it to work no matter the target count, which is a big deal. This is why i said in my original post (below) the version we are getting is arguably weaker than the one most people suggested, because even though it will almost certainly do more damage overall, the damage often will not go where you want it. Personally without knowing future season dungeons or raid fights I am fine with either version, as each have their own pros and cons and each are significantly better than what we have currently, but just wanted to put this feedback out there for consideration.
(original post with a removed line about a dev interview, since it is irrelevant here, and added what I think would be good to know from the devs)
It is no secret or matter of opinion that demon hunter was massively ignored in terms of design changes and response to feedback throughout beta, as pointed out numerous times on the forums and by several large content creators. Most people figured that we were just put on the back shelf until a patch or something, which is why it was very upsetting to read the 11.0.5 notes and see major changes to multiple hero talents and regular talents, but not really DH. DH instead gets the arguably weaker version of one change that was asked for since fel-scarred was revealed, which to be clear is better than nothing and i am glad for but could honestly be applied as a hotfix today, and a change to how vengeance’s meta health gain works. If we aren’t going to get any big changes to our hero trees or class/spec trees, can please get any communication on their thought process with the hero talents and why the class/spec trees weren’t changed at all? (9/12 addition) Particularly things that the devs think demon hunters do/dont want and enjoy in their playstyle and talents would be WONDERFUL to know, so that we can know if this is a disconnect in what the devs vs players want or if it’s something else.
Also before any non-DHs make any comments about dps or power levels or meta comps, i do not care right now if dh is the best class or the worst. This is all about playstyle and class design.
“its only alpha just wait there will be changes”
“its only beta just wait there will be changes”
“its only preseason just wait there will be changes”
“its only the first patch of the PTR just wait there will be changes”
devs clearly don’t care and have no interest in updating DH. they think a minor change to focused hatred is all we need right now. nevermind the fact that aldrachi reaver is a genuine disaster, fel scarred is flavorless and mid at best, the class and spec tree have multiple long-standing unaddressed issues, and there are several persistant bugs which have been reported for nearly 2 years at this point
It’s still op. You just miss rolling your face around on the keyboard and topping the charts. Demon hunter is more akin to dk post cata now. Being brought down to everyone else’s levels.
again, no. reread what i typed. I would say go read the beta feedback thread but they deleted those. I do not want to roll my face on my keyboard, i play fury or ret when i want that. I actually like movement style builds too, so if you think this is some “wah dont make me fel rush i just wanna spam chaos strike and have eye beam do big numbers” post then think again and actually read it.
It seems like they are understaffed or something. It’s wild we’re seeing classes get huge reworks in 11.0.5 while DH has received almost no changes since DF. AR is garbage and no one wants to play it. FS is okay but fairly boring and has no new VFX other than the Fel Fart when we proc Demon Surge.
wouldnt agree with them being understaffed. understaffed would look like no classes getting meaningful changes. the fact we are already seeing massive reworks for multiple specs and hero talents tells me they are very much fully staffed, but just have absolutely no interest in putting in the bare minimum for demon hunter
I don’t think they work like that internally. Likely these changes for 11.0.5 were meant for release but had to be delayed because they couldn’t get them all in before the release. Similar to DF, we saw them adjust classes in waves instead of sweeping changes for all. DH was in the last “wave” of changes so we’re likely not seeing anything until it’s our turn - unfortunately. My guess is we’ll see the DH changes in 11.1
Not sure what you’re saying, but I don’t think you do either
DH has and has had a very complex rotation for years now.
And currently it’s unplayable in PVP.
Still decent enough in dungeons though, I guess
Since launch (legion) DHs have had the easiest rotation out of any class and any spec lol. Both havoc and vengeance have been 7 buttons or less. The class fantasy and movement has been a ton of fun but since release (minus 1 or 2 slight changes over the last few years) DH - Especially Vengeance has continuously gotten weaker and weaker.
I agree PVP currently is atrocious and while theyre still, at best, “okay” they’re not where they should be vs other classes.
I want what you’re smoking homie
Fury warrior, BM hunter
Those are classes with a handful of buttons.
While we aren’t the MOST complex spec in the game we are far from a few buttons.
Rotation alone has 10 buttons, not including interrupts, stuns, purges etc etc
Happy to share my green. We should all chill and have a good time lol
But nah we’re running on just fumes of non-passive abilities in our rotation. We also have such a small window of execution during our ramp ups. lol any slight inconvenience against DHs currently (example: Root, stun, silence) throws up completely off
I honestly don’t mind not having as many buttons as some other classes I’m wanting to play this expac, my Warlock has so much button bloat I’m using both shift and alt to try and have easy keybinds for my MMO 12 button mouse. Like, damn, I really don’t want to have 36 buttons to potentially press in different combat scenarios!! I don’t want only 4, but going back to Veng DH this expac after starting off with Demo Lock for the first time ever I was like, sigh of relief!
But to the OP’s point, the devs are talking about trying to be more transparent with things like the roadmap and doing more of these dev talk videos and interviews.
But why won’t they also extend transparency to things like class design, talent design, visual effects and customizations, etc.???
They could do fun videos like class overviews and upcoming changes, talent trees retrospective where are we now since changing to talent trees, things like that. Class dev q and a. Whatever it may be.
oh look, another round of patch notes for 11.0.5 and they literally have nothing for DH, like there isnt even a singular patch note for the entire class, meanwhile there are multiple specs getting massive talent and hero talent reworks every new set of patch notes.
Yeah, I would really love to hear anything from them. I know they won’t outright say “yeah we’re working on literally everyone else first before you” or “it’s because we have a secret project we’re working on for dh” (to be clear as someone who wants a 3rd spec, i would be very upset if them secretly making a 3rd spec was the reason), but I would love to at least hear what they THINK demon hunters want in terms of design since they apparently thought soul fragments was a good idea for a hero tree.
also for anyone wondering i moved this to ptr feedback, changed the title from “dev communication”, and added some extra thoughts on the focused hatred change today. Can confirm below comment is me.
posted on alt because you cant reply to your own post twice in a row. If that is actually going around some kind of rule (first why can an alt do it), should i have edited the above comment after the person who it was a reply to interacted with it, just so i can have replies to 2 people in one comment? Seems less OK to me.
Right? I understand why they don’t want devs themselves in third party apps that cant be controlled by blizz or even doing Q&A if even one of them is uncomfortable with it, since many people resort to personal attacks and mental health is important so the extra exposure could easily be bad for some. But imagine how great it would be if they posted some kind of roadmap, outline, or grading rubric for their goals on a spec/class like they did for the tank changes. They could have just said “we want to reduce tanks self-sustain in TWW” (or not even that) and posted the changes. Instead they said WHY they want to do that, the GOALS they want to see with the changes, they EXPLAINED what they think the strengths and weaknesses of each tank are and should be, and HOW that influenced the some of the specific changes each tank did or didnt get. That is the kind of OUTSTANDING communication i wish we could get a fraction of right now. Did people still freak out because they saw massive nerfs for an already hard to find role? Absolutely, but i hope blizz didnt see that and have “well i guess we shouldnt go into that much detail in the future” as the takeaway.
