Because it’s significantly easier than anything that does and already goes up to 483 with crests.
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I hate mythic+ as someone who tries to priorities investing into PvP, raiding was fine for me. But M+ seems to make it that players are no longer only raid loggers.
I find M+ much more difficult than anything raid related.
Oh no I need to press taunt every like 30 seconds vs interrupt, kite, affixes.
I generally dislike the arguments people make regarding how accomplished another player is to try to imply they cannot have an opinion on the subject. But in this case, your apparent lack of experience at the highest level of raiding is truly going to inhibit your ability to assess this difficulty. Mythic raiding is a completely different animal in terms of difficulty compared to heroic. In some tiers the first boss or 2 of mythic can be easier than certain +20 keys, but by the time you reach the middle bosses there’s definitely no doubt that mythic raid difficulty far eclipses where rewards stop in M+ in terms of difficulty of mechanical skill required. In this season in particular, keys are drastically undertuned compared to an average season; I don’t think even the first boss on mythic is easier than any +20 key on any affix week.
There certainly is some key level for each dungeon that would mirror the difficulty of any mythic raid boss, such is the nature of infinite scaling. But that number is significantly higher than +20 without any question.
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Yes it is easier, I raided mythic with pugs S4 of BFA Nyalotha, it is not that much different of heroic raiding. The only challenge in raid is roster boss.
This is a horrible take. Timegating progression in a paid live service game might have flown in 2004, but that’s gonna kill this game in 2023.
Every time there’s an alternative to raiding, it almost dies. Maybe change raiding and stop trying to brick the most successful pillar of endgame in any live service mmo ever.
M+ is ubiquitous because it’s on demand, quick, and accessible. Make everything like that.
10 man mythic raiding is a must have to close this gap. We can (and should) also remove the lockout on heroic and under raids.
There’s also some other things we could do to make things better. Nix mythic only mechanics, have normal = heroic = mythic so people can learn in lower difficulties and lower that brick wall into more of a ramp into mythic.
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this happen in M+20 vs Mythic raid loot but for some reason only affects the last 2 bosses and the rare loot
The relative tuning of raid and M+ have shifted dramatically since BFA. Raids have become harder (it took RWF guilds more pulls to down just Tindral this tier than it took to kill all bosses in Ny’alotha) and M+ has become easier (the max key completed in BFA S4 was +26; already this season there have been multiple +30s timed).
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Why? Having people blow through the content in 2 weeks is good for a live service game?
Huh? What are you talking about.
So successful that none of the other major MMOs have implemented it. Sorry bud, M+ is only successful in the minds of the handful forum dwellers like you, that want to play this game like a full time job.
This is not how MMOs work dude. What you want is a lobby game like Destiny 2 or Diablo, the more the devs try to cater to players like you, the more this game dies. Notice how the game is getting fewer and fewer resources? M+ isn’t keeping the game alive lol. Imagine thinking that grinding the same 8 dungeons over and over again is good MMO content. I just can’t take anyone serious in this thread that advocates for this crap. You guys are not MMO players, you’re ARPG players that want the game to revolve around a gimmicky system because it fits your play style better.
Removing lockouts on raiding is stupid.
I don’t get why people need to have this game fill every moment of their week. I’d rather have time gated, slower progression each week than the nonsense we have now.
Retail WoW is not an MMO anymore, it is a crappy live-service game that is milking players like you for minimal investment from the studio.
The egos in this thread are just unbelievable. You guys act like you all have all the answers here, and that your position on M+ is the only correct position, meanwhile, the game has been bleeding players more and more each expansion because the developers making the game just don’t know how to make a good MMO.
This is incorrect comparison, the difficulty scaled up, today’s 30 maybe the same as 26 before.
My opinion is, raid must become loot pinatas, just 1 - 3 mechanis top, that it is.
Watch subs number go up after that, nobody cares about RWF?
Why should I care who first got the boss and how many attempts they did it with, this is a video game, a fun (supposedly) activity.
Have any proof of that? Also, that 30 number is not even 8 weeks into the season, +36s are not out of the question by the end of the season.
This is a deflection. I didn’t bring up RWF because I think you or anyone else should be watching them or even care in general about those guilds. It just highlights the difficulty increase between the final raids in BFA and DF when being completed by the best players in the world. It’s not like I’m splitting hairs over a handful of more pulls, there were nearly 500 more pulls for the best guilds to clear Amirdrassil than Ny’alotha. Mythic raiding today is unquestionably harder than it was multiple expansions ago.
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Raiding is the worst content created in an MMO.
Good riddance it’s dying
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No other MMO can compete in terms of PvE. Every single one, with Wild Star being one of the most infamous examples of it, have failed. Only MMOs that focuses on storytelling or PvP have been successful competitors to WoW, and even then the biggest (traditional, not count freemium MMOs) one after WoW has an estimated 1/5:th of WoW’s active players.
And again, the appeal of M+ stems from being able to run the same thing over and over again with slight differences. And for this we aren’t talking about needing to compare it to MMOs, but we can compare it to Roguelites.
I have made this argument before, and all you could do was run away screaming “not real, not real, Roguelites aren’t real and popular”. Maybe instead of trolling on the forums, you could check out this link and maybe you’ll find a game you have heard of:
The difference is that most people play the game… and you don’t. This is why you advocate for the outright removal of stuff in order to kill the game, and that’s all you are ever gonna do. Seriously, get a hobby - pick up knitting or something like that.
This tier specifically and only Tindral. Aberrus on the other hand was the easiest raid we’ve had since I’m not even sure? Saying EN would be a cop out but I’m struggling to think of one between then and now that was easier.
Honestly everything up to Tindral is kinda falling over compared to pre Dragonflight tiers.
I don’t think a raid that had a pretty long runtime and saw heavy indirect nerfs through corruption traits should be used as an example how easy Mythic raiding allegedly is, especially with pugs.
Replaced with grinding a smaller set of content, hooray! This is a win for everyone.
For Blizzard it is. It allows them to reach an audience that they otherwise couldn’t appeal to.
Players who have limited play time now have a path that can lead to high lvl gear, without the need to commit to raid schedules and play politics in guilds.
Then it sounds like the problem with Challenge Modes was the lack of progression, or at least the lack of a feeling of progression.
Agree 100%. It’s kind of stupid that if you Mythic or Heroic that you have to then do lower tiers for the recolours. (And it’s especially brutal when the Heroic recolour is the worst of the four… 
)
Then again, it’s possible Blizzard has made it this way to encourage skilled raiders who want to farm the tmogs to go to LFR and help carry everyone else…
Do they ever go into why not? Knowing why players are not interested in raiding might help to make changes to make it more appealing.
What if each piece of gear had three separate upgrade tracks (raid, M+, PVP) and you could only power up each track with currency from like content.
This way if your BiS for raid and M+ is the same gear, you don’t have to get two of them (one from M+ and one from raid). If you powered up the raid track using currency only available from raids, it would function at a higher ilvl in raid but not in M+ or PvP. You could also power up the M+ and PvP upgrade tracks, but you’d need currency dropped specifically from M+ and PvP respectively.
If you find another piece of gear that is better, you could potentially refund some of a given track and reuse the currency already earned?
GW2 has something like this. There are two sets of PvE gear you can equip (which then do not count towards your bag space), as well as a PvP loadout (because all stats are normalized in PvP).
Yeah, I’ve been thinking that such a system could work since the debacle that was BfA gearing…
Every expack since vanilla has had roughly the same number of raids per expack (3 - 4) and an ever decreasing number of dungeons (16 in TBC, 9 in DF, and 8 being the lowest in MoP, though 2 of those were old dungeons, so, it’s more like 6).
On the other hand, the amount of solo, single-player content has increased greatly. We went from rep turn-ins of cloth in vanilla and dailies in TBC and Wrath to scenarios, WQs, mission tables, class halls, new zones, and an insane amount of new quests, many with cinematics, over the same period.
If you think Blizzard is being “lazy” with content in WoW because M+ exists, you need to stop spending time on the forum complaining that “M+ breeds less content” and actually go and play the content that Blizzard has added.
Literally nobody says that. You’re just making 
up now. 
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GW2 has Fractals of the Mists, which are about ~20ish small dungeons with scaling difficulty from 1 to 100.
These were introduced in 2013, about a year before M+ was introduced in WoD.
They are considered a core pillar of GW2’s endgame.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fractals_of_the_Mists
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Gw2 gear progression and pve is a joke. The biggest reason to play that game was and will always be pvp.
Fractals are way way worse than M+ and are mostly dailies.