Has M+ gear rewards ruined raiding?

Community General Discussion
21

Not to mention a raid clear drops 36 pieces of loot
8 dungeons worth drops 16 pieces of loot

Raid drops tier
Dungeons do not

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22

I feel Gnomes should be deleted.

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23

I was under the impression that raiding didn’t give enough items anyway, which would still probably be the case without M+ there.

But anyway, no. I prefer M+ drastically to raiding. I don’t see why M+ shouldn’t experience the full endgame gear scaling just because of raids existing.

Also this generally isn’t true. A lot of the BiS lists include items you can only get from raid.

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24

…and away we go…

25

A game with multiple choices of progression shows how welcoming and flexible it is.

That "raid or die’ mindset is too old and unfit for today’s playerbase.

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26

I’ve always preferred the smaller formats. 20 is just too many people for me.

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27

Thats not my point. My point is content people can do on their own is gonna go pretty well and you can be held down by others just as much as carried by them.

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28

Why does it matter if raiding is ruined? I think raiding is puppy guarded in this game and the attitude towards it is insanely out dated.

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29

I think loot has ruined raiding, and the game, overall. Not the loot itself, but the perception of entitlement to it, and the way it has been enshrined above content enjoyment. Player problem

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30

100% and with the amount of effort and time that goes into just raiding is insane. People are really weird about raiding and so many of them just do it for the gear when I thought raiding was about having fun with your friends.

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31

And I bet 75% of them are running mythic+ for rewards higher tier then heroic raiding. I know in my raid team, I am basically the only one not running at least 15s+ each week.

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32

I do miss 10 man mythic(heroic) raiding. It felt actually possible to put a team together and even though it was tougher with less possible battle rezz’s and insane damage scaling it was fun. with 20 the odds of people staying in guild for the long haul is slim to none.

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33

M+ and raid their 1,2,3 ruined raiding.

34

I think the difficulty to reward ratio is now completely off. Between the large gear jump between this patch and the previous, and the current m+ scaling, 18s feel like 12-14s from last season. You can hold W in a 20+ AD and still 3 chest it.

That being said, the RNG on top of RNG that is GV often makes any effort to fill out 8 20s relatively useless. Past the first 3-4 weeks, random drops from GV are the only gear progression, which doesn’t even count as progression when you have no influence over the items.

I’ll never understand why Blizz is in this eternal battle to reinvent the wheel when there have previously been better methods or alternatives of getting gear based on accumulating tokens for doing an activity (i.e. BOJs and similar currency).

6 Likes
35

I don’t think so. While I prefer M+ over raiding, I’m still a heroic raider. Gearing is easier in M+, but the gear is not necessarily better. Raid trinkets are more powerful than dungeon trinkets more often than not and same for weapon drops. .

So no, M+ has not ruined raiding

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36

Again, we’ll have to see.

Plenty of people complained about the mage tower because it was too hard. Same thing about Torghast. Both were solo content.

Delves are put in as a progression path. With multiple diffculties. Sure the people who do raid and do higher m+ and pvp will have no problems soloing these and getting the best rewards.

But delves were put in for the “we solo players want a solo progression path” crowd. How well is it going to go over when they’re not able to progress barely beyond open world level because the next difficulty for the next level reward is too hard?

For someone like me, its free gear so i dont care. But what about when the poeple its directed act are unable.to do it?

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37

I have negative interest in raiding because of the trashy systems that remove player agency over it and penalize those who play at a different pace than what the bean counters at ABK want.

Remove raid lockouts and replace it with proper depreciating returns such that the concept of “burned lockouts” no longer exists, and such that burst style playing where you skip one week and double up play the next is no longer penalized.

As it stands I dont see raiding as a meaningful game experience. It is just a full lack of player agency chore where you have to social engineer people to avoid and work around systems that only exist to artificially drag out subs.

Sorry, it is not that m+ is stealing players, it’s just that people finally have agency to get away from something that feels terrible due to systems design.

Btw I have no confidence blizzard will change the actual systems, just move the currencies or baits around. I gave up on the company.

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38

Some people complained about them, perhaps including you and your friend group. But certainly not everyone, nor necessarily even a majority.

Can’t paint with a broad brush like that when attempting to make an argument.

39

I don’t care if raiding has better gear, it’s not worth doing for me.

A better thread title would have been, “has raiding ruined raiding?” or “has no personal loot ruined pug raiding?” or “does the majority of the player base even raid?”.

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40

Depends on how it’s being applied.

There’s a lot of warm bodies collecting raid gear too.

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