Sure, I guess, but the folks doing the math are saying that raids are far more time efficient in terms of gear acquisition than M+.
If we take that as true, then the limit is the weekly raid lockout, which, to be fair, some raiders have suggested should be done away with as another way to gain parity with M+.
However, if there’s no weekly loot lockout on raids…do we want to entertain all the ways players will abuse this and then come to forums complaining about the ridiculous amount of hours per week they are “required” to raid?
Raids give on average around 2 pieces of loot per weeks, people account that you can funnel raid loot which is not the normal raid experience.
Making raids spammable is making the same mistake as m+, it would balance them out but would still means you gotta spend extra hours early just to be competitive.
yes as of course that is normal.
Lot of people do not want the game to feel like an arpg grind where you just spend 2 weeks spamming content and are mostly done.
You’re right, it doesn’t make sense to spend 5 hours on a 19 year old game to get a piece of loot. But you know what M+ is? It’s a quality of life for some folks wo want to remain semi competitive and be challenged without having to make a 2nd job commitment to raiding dragons. I think if challenge modes and then m+ wasn’t introduced, I probably wouldn’t be playing pve anymore.
It ruined raiding for me, personally, because M+ became a mandatory chore to stay competitive in the raid, which was important to me.
I think it creates an excellent mode for a certain demographic of people, and I don’t know if my personal feelings are shared commonly.
Either way, M+ turned WoW into an extremely casual/solo game for me, which I don’t mind. Between that and the changes to leveling that made it less interesting, it broke the hold the game had on me as a player.
If it weren’t for M+ and the leveling changes, I’d probably never have given FFXIV a chance nor would I have gotten into TTRPGs, which is a significantly better way to spend time with people I like gaming with.
I’ll also put a little weight on Discord. Discord allowing me to just talk to all my gaming friends easily outside of the game made it less important to log in, as I don’t need the game anymore to maintain those casual social relationships.
I dont know if it ruins things, but I do find it a little strange that I get even up to Heroic raid level gear when running moderate level Mythics when getting rewards from The Vault.
I am sick of raiding, I am sick of the game being devoted to it and a bad raid meaning the xpack gets scrapped to move on to the next like it has in the past.
This game is more then just raiding, we don’t need a second job for gear.
no, everything is as it should be. m+ is there for people who don’t want to progress raid or participate in them as less as possible, and also for raiders who have had crap luck and free time they can spend pursuing alternate sources of gear
It’s not the gear rewards that ruined raiding. It’s people who made it mandatory to run that content, who decided that spamming mythic+ as if you were independently wealthy and didn’t have any responsibilities in life is the only right way to play the game. This divided the raiding playerbase and broke up guilds. Also it changed the focus of guilds from being social to no reason to be a member unless you’re a progression raider. Social guilds just faded away, as did social chat, which has successfully been eradicated from the game. Good job, Ion.
The game is balanced around you running M+ else your progression will be way slower. They didn’t make the game easier by adding M+, they just scaled everything up.
The people that aren’t good enough to clear heroic week 1 aren’t exactly clearing high keys week 1 either. Most people get raid gear first and then farm M+ after.
There should be parity in difficulty and rewards, and there isn’t. Not even close.
And I know you’re in a top end CE guild, who of course is in primarily mythic+ gear as is most of your raid team despite being 7/9 mythic. Are you guys extending yet? Further reducing raid loot because who cares with mythic+?
And despite your amazing 7/9 mythic progression already you would have 130 aspect crests from raiding right now. Enough for 2 crafts and 0 upgrades.
Most people would be my call do this to some point. You aren’t doing 16 hours a day of raids split like top guilds so you are doing M+ before your raid times.
I’m not currently raiding and, to be honest, I can’t say I’ve been paying much attention to the loot that drops in my M+ runs (mostly because 90% of the time I just get the stupid crafting thingamjig that I have no idea WTF to do with), so I’m not sure how much accuracy there is to this, but there seems to be a wide discrepancy between “2 per week” (per player? per raid?) and “36 per run per 20 players”…
Having said that, I totally support raids dropping more loot if it makes things nicer.
This happened way back in Cata due to the cross-realm RDF’s introduction at the end of Wrath and the gaming of Guilds via perks in Cata.
Ion may be responsible for a lot of in the game, but the dissolution of its community is not one of them…
He accounts for funneling and the time it takes to clear a raid which is just not realist unless you’re paying for a carry, but the no loot lockout and being able to personnal loot funnel in M+ is even higher. You could technically do a raid right now that doesn’t drop any gear you can use.
But yea 36/20 is around 1.8 loot per person.
This amounts vary depending on the amount of bosses often which is also bad to a certain point.
I keep thinking an alternative would be to have some kind of currency system, where bosses drop that instead of, or perhaps in addition to, gear and you can just trade in the currency for gear or use it to upgrade existing gear.
Raids could tuned to be super efficient whereas M+ much less so. This would mean that doing a full raid clear you’d get a ton of gear currency but doing M+ would only provide much smaller amounts.
There could be a weekly cap as well. The problem here then is players who cap easily may feel like there is less to do in the game, but perhaps encouraging them to play alts (what with more alt friendly features coming in future expacks) may solve that issue…
Personally I feel that’s more fair as players that want more can play alts. And once youre done gearing for the week you can do other content which are not gear related without feeling like you’re scuffing yourself.
in the game, but the dissolution of its community is not one of them…
