The statement Anduin made in the cinematic? Because that definitely needs some explaining. Arthas is an Alliance regret on equal level of the things that Saurfang mentioned? In what way?
I feel like this one statement has just stupified a bunch why he would even say that. Was he just trying to lessen Saurfangs depression with nonsense? Because Arthas is in no way an Alliance responsibility. He got cursed by taking up a dark sword, then turned traitor to his own kingdom. In no way did the Alliance have a hand in making this happen. In no way do they share in his sins, he became the enemy instantly.
I feel like iâm taking crazy pills here, itâs so nonsensical.
Yeah it doesnât make a whole lot of sense. If we expand on that sort of knowledge we would have to acknowledge the untold destruction the âHordeâ caused ever since the Orcs first came into contact with the Legion such as the genocide of the Draenei, the creation of the Lich King in some ways, the enslavement of dragons, etc. The Trolls are some of the most prolific warmongers on Azeroth, and the Forsaken are, well, pretty much completely evil.
Everyone has blood on their hands and in their history, but to take the actions of one very bad apple who acted during a time where the Alliance didnât really exist is bad logic and doesnât even make sense in context.
TECHNICALLY uther or jaina could of stopped him, there was a lot of way he could of been stopped before he went full blown scourge.
But I generally agree with you, that was blizzard trying to grasp at straws to find a naughty thing the alliance did blizzard does whitewash the alliance.
I think garithos, jaina, orc internment caps woulda all been much better.
The internment camps probably come closest due to some foul shenanigans with its leadership involved but the alternative was executing them all, and there was a potential cure being researched to their lethargy
So again that doesnât quite work, but at least it works a little bit better than Arthas?
That isnât the âAllianceâ though, or at least not the current one. Even Garithos wasnât, he was a member of the much older Alliance.
Again, its like forcing the modern Horde to take full responsibility for the First War. Sure, some of its members are maybe old enough that they did fight during it, but the overall membership of the current Horde and its leaders had absolutely nothing to do with it.
Thats pretty much my point, they tried to make the alliance seem on par with the horde, was more insulting than anything really.
At the start of this expansion they said âfaction prideâ and âmorally greyâ and the horde got neither the alliance at least kept their faction pride.
Itâs the big problem when you keep making one faction the unambiguous good guys. When it comes time to call them out on the bad theyâve done there isnât any.
Oh we donât have much to have pride in either but for the opposite reason. Weâre stupid, incredibly so.
ehhhh. Faction pride isnât that strong for Alliance though since they tend to not write as much for our side, leaders donât get involved at all or say dumb things or do dumb things.
Take for example the Council of three for the Dwarves and Velen, in what way were they involved for BFA?
I doubt theyâll ever actually reply, but I believe their intention is that, because the current Alliance was built off the tenants and the like of the Old Alliance, their old sins reflect on the legacy it built.
Arthas may not have been part of the current Alliance, but he was still the prince of to the leadership of the Old and thus is an old shame. Daelin was part of the Old Alliance and again an old shame.
Now I donât believe the point Anduin was making wasnât that âWe have to take responsibility for our forefathers actionsâ because as soon as you say that, you also have to say the same for the Horde and oh boy. But he was pointing out that the mantra of âWe all have things in our past that we regret, the point is we got to move forward now.â
So your saying there is some? Also what are you talking about last 1/2 of legion was all alliance.
Exponentially better than the horde. Seriously, what does the horde have to be proud of? Whoops we messed up again, and its it (mostly) ourselves.
The alliance can away say well were not as bad as them! Yaâll have more faction pride than you realize. Wish my factions biggest thing was well we sometimes look dumbâŚ
I canât take the name they gave that seriously. Iâm picturing a bunch of white guys in martial arts uniforms resolving their disagreements over story direction in over the top Mortal Kombat style shenanigans.
The story writing of late has been left in the hands of a writing team with the brains of goldfish, constantly forgetting what they previously wrote and writing over it.
Even the books they write, in which the playerbase moans and groans about not having lore in game for, they seem not to remember. The whole spiel with Derek Proudmoore, for instance, should not have happened at all. Derek should not have been resurrected, because Derek DID NOT HAVE A BODY LEFT TO RESURRECT. They said outright in the novel âTides of Darknessâ - basically updating the story of Warcraft II to better jive with the storyline (such as it is) of WoW - that Derek was incinerated, left as nothing but ashes by a red dragon. No corpse! (Furthermore, I donât think the reason he suddenly HAS a corpse was ever explained!)
I confess I wonder about the night elves myself, though I would imagine their major reason is âtheyâre not the Hordeâ. As for Anduin, itâs all about succession. The humans have always led the Alliance, the other races donât seem to have a problem with that, and Stormwindâs the last major human kingdom left, and so whoever leads Stormwind leads the Alliance. The perks of hereditary monarchy.
Because he was very much influenced by people like Varian, Jaina and Muradin. That regret is that is no one saw the Darkness that was already in Arthas heart.
It would be akin to how parents of murders feel responsibility for the actions of their kids. How many people WISH they could have done something different.
I imagine Jaina had something to do with it. Jaina earned Tyrandeâs respect during the cutscene before the mount Hyjal fight in WC 3, and Jaina was then the main alliance power in Kalimdor after the war. But thatâs just a likely assumption we donât know.
The Arthas thing I can sort of see. Arthis did come âfromâ the Alliance. But the terrible things he did were either A. to his own people (Stratholme if you donât think it was a necessary evil to put the city down, lying to his own men and betraying some hired mercenaries in Northrend.) or B. After turning traitor for the scourge after his soul was taken by Frostmourn.
Arthas didnât lead the Alliance in a war of oppression or genocide. Anything he did that gave the blood elves reasons to hate humans was done after heâd gone Scourge.
He had something of a point with Daelin, because Daelin refused to reason with Jaina when she tried to talk him down from attacking the horde settling in Durotar. And if I recall it wasnât until after his death and the Alliance not turning on Jaina that Kulâtiras left the Alliance, so I think he was still acting in service of the Alliance at the time. Garithos is someone he could have pointed out because Garithos was the legit alliance commander at the time even if only because a lot of other people above him died. He could have even mentioned Rogers and Greymane attacking Sylvanas in Stormheim.
But villains like Arthas, Bennedictus, Staghelm etc are all traitors to their homes and not âalliance villainsâ in the same way Garrosh and SYlvanas were âhorde villainsâ during their time as warchief.
Arthas was Heir to the throne of the Alliance of Lordaeron. He gave orders based on the authority he presumed to that position up to and including the disbandment of the Order of the Silver Hand.
Blaming everything on Frostmourne ignores the path Arthas traveled on the road to his own self-dammnation. Everything up to the point of taking up that blade and most of what he did afterwards was by his OWN agency.
When Arthas marched on Quelâthelas it was as the defacto King of Lordaeron, having assumed rulership by assasination. He was one of the Alliances own, and part of the reason he wound up the way he did was that so many of the Alliance dropped the ball where they could have made a difference. Anduin, as High King, inherits that responsibility and the blood-debt it carries.