[H-RP] Forsaken Talks Forever

Noslferatu-wyrmrest-accord · August 3, 2022, 6:15am

A handwritten note with bone tied to its edges can be found on the posting boards in Horde cities, some are even sent in the mail to certain souls.

Forsaken brethren, there is confidence in the new Desolate Council to restore our land, and they seem to inspire our people to seek new possibilities for our society. One Council member in particular might be the bridge for better relations with the Alliance. Each night excitement increases, but some keep their enthusiasm in reserve because the past has taught us cation.

What will such interactions with the Alliance look like? Where is the line of demarcation between cooperation and domination? A clearer picture can only be formed through the many lens of perspective.

It is your perspective we need added to the rest. Because whether you support Calia being a leader of the Forsaken or not, the fact remains that she has a strong connection with the Alliance. It may even be stronger than her connection with the Forsaken. I hope to see you at this third gathering in a Forsaken place. This time we will haunt the Sepulcher and speak with one another. This will be the most heated debate that I’ll be fortunate to have with you, but as always, at least all will be considered.

OOC

When will this take place?
20th of Aug at 6pm server on WrA. 8pm MG i think.

Where?
Sepulcher. It has a decent space, a unified phase no matter how much of the zone you’ve completed, and is as short of a flight from either stage of the U.C. like Tarren Mill was.

What are we doing exactly?
This is going to be a rally to voice out the current feelings about the state of the Forsaken. This time we will try to focus on the topic of Calia’s connection with the Alliance, but ofcourse it doesn’t have to be only about that. The event will mostly be casual, but if you want to reserve a spot for a speech then let me know. (BT Malachite#1474)

How long will it take?
A little over 2 hours based off the previous two. There will be casual RP taking place after.

Is it Forsaken only?
No, it’s just Forsaken centric. Living Horde are just as welcome to vist or even give a speech. I only ask that it be related to the Forsaken.

Capteya-wyrmrest-accord · August 5, 2022, 6:23pm

Capteya reads the parchment and becomes compelled to speak aloud…

“Calia’s connection is balanced between us and Alliance. She is the combination of light and death. She will bring such unity that everyone will know a peace like that before the cult of the danmed ruined everything."

She takes a bone piece off the upper right corner, ripping that part of the parchment in the process. She slowly crushes it in her plated hand before pouring the crumbles into a vial.

Gibet-moon-guard · August 6, 2022, 1:35pm

((Going to be celebrating our Anniversary that weekend so it’s doubtful I will be on that late. So I figured I’d post something about what she would say if she attended. Hope the debate is lively and interesting!))

Gibet landed outside Lordaeron, still shaken from the journey to the crossroads of her birth ((part2 of the letters epilogue)). Still clutching Alorik’s letter, she let the razorwing go hunt. She leaned on her staff, staring at the ground, then paced the grounds outside of Lordaeron to clear her head of the Brakenwall Reserve. She forgot how potent a spirit it is.

She glanced at Alorik’s letter once more, then channeled fel energy and set it ablaze with green fire. She let the ashes float to the old flagstones before continuing her walk.

She paused by the notice board as she needed a distraction from her thoughts and noticed a letter framed in bone. It looked as if someone tore off one piece of the bone framing. She held up her staff and channeled a little fel energy into the living branch. The yellow-green fel-blossoms covering the skull began glowing brighter as she began reading.

“Interesting,” she mused, “though not unexpected, I suppose.” She touched the torn edge absently. “It looks as if the debate has already begun,” she rasped. Gibet was not fond of political discourse. The truth is usually one of the first victims. Not that it was a ‘murder scene.’ More that it gets bent by each perspective and argument till it is difficult to see beyond that. The concept of truth itself can be a ‘slippery eel’.

Gibet shook her head. “I have become a cynical bitc…,” she started rasping but cut it off, realizing she may have an audience.

“I guess this is necessary,” she continued with her thoughts. “Better to get this out now,” she continued to herself. Recalling Alorik’s comment about taking a proactive approach to self defense, she considered observing this event.

“What would I even say?,” she asked herself.

“Complexity will occur on its own,” she remembered the Professor lecturing. “The key is to simplify. Complexity as an argument is a trap. Complexity is the reaction to simple root causes. Start from there…”

Gibet continued her walk and climbed up on one of walls. Off in the distance, she could see her razorwing fishing in the lake. She looked down and observed Lady Menethil for a moment, absently tapping her staff against the wall.

She let out an exasperated rasp.

“Why the hell are we even here anymore?” she finally whispered to herself out loud. “We are not part of this world anymore. We don’t NEED to be in order to pursue our destines. We are beyond that now. Free! Outside the trappings of this mortal realm.”

“We have access to the domains beyond the veil now. Why linger here, trapped, recreating those constructs we had in this life, hoping they make us feel more… alive… knowing full-well what their effect will be. Let the Scarlets chase their tail; forever choosing what new heretic to burn…”

“The remnants of Arthas’ Death Knights have the right idea in their floating necropolis,” she pondered with a smile. “Always the tacticians that lot. Maybe we could follow suit and take Naxxramas for ourselves.”

“Trying to recreate a ‘living’ society here, being what we are, will lead to one key point; procreation; as to ‘live’ is to ‘grow.’”

“That will be the most defining next step we take if we look to remain in Lordaeron. Staking out a claim to exist is an argument that most living can understand, though maybe not agree with. That alone will be challenging enough, but there is precedent.”

“But necromancy. If institutionalized, well… aren’t we just recreating what was done to us? To most Forsaken, Arthas forced this existence on us. To a very few, it offered an alternative to something… worse,” she thought to herself, recalling Alorik’s letters. “Even if voluntary, it will still raise several moral issues with allies and opponents alike.”

“I believe the horde would support claiming Lordaeron as a place to establish ourselves. The Alliance may concede because of Lady Menethil’s influence. But I doubt either would continue to support us if we began robbing graves in a literal sense.” She looked down at Lady Menethil and Derek Proudmoore. “I seriously doubt that they would approve of such a thing either, and if they don’t, will this reestablished peerage follow suit, or will they discard what they just so recently swore oaths to?”

Gibet squeezed her eyes shut tightly, already fighting hard against the riptide of complexity and counter-arguments thundering in her head. She went back to the root. “We need to become something different; beyond our past if we are to have a future. Most will want to continue to cling to what is familiar, however”

Gibet felt as if someone was observing her. She opened her eyes and looked down, noticing Lady Menethil regarding her on the wall. It looked as if time had slipped away from her again. She gave Gibet a tentative smile. Gibet returned it, but it was sad with knowledge of the difficult position she knew Calia was going to face.

“This should again prove… interesting,” she rasped to herself. Her self-dialog was cut off when the razorwing clambered up the wall still dripping from the lake. “Don’t you dare…,” she warned, but it was too late as it showered her with lake water as it shook itself dry.

She let out an exasperated, rasping shout that even earned a rare smile from Derek Proudmoore below.

Noslferatu-wyrmrest-accord · August 7, 2022, 1:15am

(( Within the Pro-Calia camp in particular, i think this question is a root that might divide that group. Those supporting of her in hopes of reclaiming a former life in some way, and those supporting her in hopes that she will create something altogether new. Sort of like the cultural change Forsaken had after Northrend.))

(( This is another topic which I am hoping we will be making the focus of in another event.))

(( I hope Calia says something which addresses this in either direction when we get to the next Hallows End. We have a new looking Lordaeron, why not a new speech hosted by the new Council too?))

Gibet-moon-guard · August 8, 2022, 5:06pm

((Once WOLK finished up it started the still-unanswered question on how the Forsaken will continue as a ‘race’ in WoW.

Two main parts:

First is ‘where.’ Makes sense to stake out Lordaeron as it doesn’t make a radical change to the existing game.

There is precedent as most Forsaken are of Lordaeron and as mentioned, with Calia’s influence, the Alliance could concede.

The remaining friction would be from fringe groups such as the Scarlets and living remnant’s of the peerage who believe their undead counterparts should be returned to the grave. Some Gilnaean drama could be thrown in for spice as well.

For game purpose that would be good as it gives lots of ‘conflict’ threads, both game and RP, without changing the map much.

The second topic is by far the most interesting game-wise. How to replenish and grow the ranks.

They broached the subject, through a mirror darkly in Cata, when Sylvanus used Valkyr to raise some Gilneans. That caused even Garosh to flip out. But he’s a mook and allowed it because it was a military resource… and was part of the Dark Lady’s lore spiral.

What may be interesting, and the Calia quest kind of gave me the idea, is to replenish via the Maldraxi.

Morally it wouldn’t be an issue with either faction because it is not being forced upon a person. Souls who pass into the shadow lands and into the undying army could have the choice to serve Azeroth as Forsaken.

We could even get their floating necropolis as the gate between the realms. Yes, like upright forsaken models, I WANT a floating ‘Overcity’. :P))

Noslferatu-wyrmrest-accord · August 9, 2022, 3:49am

(( Having Maldraxes involved would help preserve relevancy for Shadowlands. I haven’t heard of that being a solution to Forsaken procreation ICly yet. It would be interesting to hear someone speak about it.

Thinking about it though, Shadowlands events aren’t well known to the common player character, right? I’m not sure exactly how much is accepted as common enough knowledge for RP. Although perhaps after the time skip it will be enough time for the tales to be widely known.

In your take though, what might the Forsaken be able to exchange in return for Maldraxi help?))

Gibet-moon-guard · August 9, 2022, 11:36am

((Yea I would love to but we’re celebrating our 25th anniversary that weekend and if I want to see 26, I don’t want to pull aggro to that level. That’s a boss fight I can’t win.))

((The common player really doesn’t need to know about the shadowlands for the Maldraxxi to serve as the necromantic engine to keep the Forsasken at least active in game.

The opening screen would be the character being sent to the Arbiter after their death and then to the undying army. They could even use that as a starting leveling zone to level 10 or so. Then they could choose to remain or go serve Azeroth as that is where they came from. Then they would awaken in Azeroth (in that cool floating city yea like a dog with a chew toy) and continue the leveling process.))

((The hook would be a two way deal. Since we helped with the jailer, their Primus, and are the essence of necromancy on Azeroth, they might feel compelled to allow those in the undying army to continue to serve Azeroth.

The other side is that a lot of the mess was caused by the Forsaken… cough… Sylvanus… cough. So helping us out is both thanks and, perhaps, keeping an eye on us

The other path I could see Blizzard taking would be if they dissolved factions entirely. Then its pretty much a new game as the original concept were the two factions quested, yet beat the crap out of each other in the process.

The engines of our own necromantic continuance could take a darker turn, which would also be cool as hell.

This would be the more interesting choice but how they would pull this off in game would be the big question.

PVE wouldn’t be an issue but BGs would need restructuring and my be completely scrapped in favor of new ones.

If this happens it will be most likely after Dragonlands as they will need to flesh out the whole cross-faction thing during this. They may even renew the faction divide; who can say at this time

Gibet’s IC reaction was more about the trappings of the past being largely pointless. Peerage, even regular families, really don’t apply to how we exist anymore in her opinion.

To Gibet, the Forsaken is our family. Anything else is largely constructed as a coping mechanism. Again this is driven by her experiences.

To her, we have the ability to create something new and unique, so the concept of undead versions of the living peerage just confuses her as it really serves no purpose; except to provide that familiarity… which can important she would concede. But, we don’t have to fall back on past versions.

In fact she would see that as a potential problem as it creates a sense of entitlement. “I was lord of the manner in life, I deserve it now in undeath.” To her, we are all undead now, equal and searching for our way forward.

Some former Lord and Lady expecting oaths of fealty because someone used to be a commoner on their land is going to be met by, at best, cold indifference by Gibet.

Using those constructs to set unofficial policy, yes in a RP setting this is expected and part of the fun, is something the character would be extremely wary of.

As per the long backstory exposition, Gibet’s feelings of betrayal are beyond personal, they are elemental; so that is her approach.

The trappings of the past have proven that they aren’t ideal (in her experience). Let’s try something new as now is the time before habits become policy and history repeats itself once again in undeath…))

Noslferatu-wyrmrest-accord · August 11, 2022, 2:57am

((It could be made interesting if Blizzard could do it right. Because my faith in them is all but gone, I’d rather they just find a solution that has no future consequences.))

((Nos agrees. He doesn’t want the old ways in life to be adopted again…like nobles taking the helm.

That’s why Calia’s connection to the Alliance is a big problem for him.))

Gibet-moon-guard · August 12, 2022, 3:12pm

((Thought I’d do an actual in-character response as a letter. This is a re-hash of some already posted material and some new items, but more ‘speech’ oriented, and a direct, in-character response. Feel free if any of these topics sound good for your event. I’ll be in the North End of Boston (little Italy).

A letter arrives addressed to Noslferatu. It is on fine stationary, sealed with the image of a noose stamped in the black wax.

Dear Noslferatu,

Forgive me for not seeking you out in person. I have been… occupied with personal affairs. The conditions of my rising have left me with a badly damaged voice, so extended speaking would be difficult unless someone could translate signing.

I read your notice outside the ruins of the Undercity. I will most likely not be able to attend due to continuing personal matters, but wanted to send you my thoughts in hope they may add to the conversation.

My dear old professor, mentor, and friend often told me that ‘complexity’ is nature’s reaction to simple root causes. That is where I would like to start. I have two such branches to explore. One concerns Calia, the other, and more important, the Forsaken.

Calia…

Many have voiced opinions on her recent addition to the Forsaken and the creation of the Desolate Council. An Undead priest of the light, risen by the light.; an interesting addition.

Her communique with Greymane concerning Gilneas as part of her… introduction to our fold was a little suspicious, but I believe she sought to diffuse another front on our border while we were still recovering.

I had a long talk with my mentor concerning Calia. He is an avid historian and has access to… unique methods of historical research.

Here are our thoughts on this matter:

1. We do not believe she actively seeks power. She honestly feels responsible for our condition. Perhaps she wishes to help us as a penance for her brother’s… excesses. However, we do fear that others may use her as an excuse to exert authority. More on that later.

2. We do not believe she has an Alliance agenda other than trying to do two things; provide a haven for the Forsaken in Lordaeron, perhaps using her name as part of the argument, and diffuse local hostilities on our major border with Gilneas.

3. She is a minority on the council, with Faranell and Belmont being wary, Voss being pragmatic, and Velonara representing the dark rangers. I would wager that initially, they will keep tabs on each other closely.

4. The most important item we know concerning her history is the fate of her daughter. She would be the last LIVING Menethil heir. If she survived, it could throw our existence in turmoil… again.

My gut tells me she means well, but trust takes time. We shall see.

The Forsaken

The return of a Menethil has created a storm of activity with the Forsaken. Remnants of the peerage have sworn allegiance to her as rightful heir apparent. They also swore allegiance to the council but, in spirit, it was Calia who was the focus.

This drives my root question: Does being Forsaken mean being Lordaeronian?

A simple enough question. The answer will define us.

There will be those who answer yes, and this is my primary concern. They may point to Calia as a ‘sign’ that Lordaeron should reestablish its old government in undeath.

I can see former Lords and Ladies, risen in undeath, demanding oaths of fealty to the risen that may have formerly lived on their lands. What of us who rose but are not of Lordaeron? Are we expected to swear oaths to a re-constructed feudal monarchy?

I will not abide by this; ever!

Undeath made us unique among all the denizens of Azeroth. It made us truly equal. My oath is to my brothers and sisters in undeath. The Forsaken is now my family.

The monarchy of the living is not applicable to how we exist now. It is based on inherited privilege. Living families in that society exist to maintain their landlord rights and gather the wealth from owning that land and the bounty provided by the commoners under them.

Their goal for the continuance of that privilege lies with continuing their blood line. It will be interesting to see how living remnants of the Lordaeron peerage will react to the Forsaken path forward. They are living creatures and have a vested interest in recovering their lands because that equals wealth. That is why the fate of Calia’s daughter worries me so.

For those, such as myself, that answer NO to this question, an often retort is to state our grand design for our society. That is often a trap, as someone can attack something new from a position of historical precedence.

In such a situation, I must refer to our legacy to this point. We organized the Forsaken around our abilities. Look at the structure of the old Undercity. Our leadership was more military-focused.

I believe we should continue this with the exception that we now have a council rather than a military leader. This is actually the less radical path. It has served us well. Let it continue to do so.

Even writing this, I can hear the potential echoes of counter arguments.

Perhaps I can offer a compromise. One based on our most powerful gift; choice!

I honestly do not care about the establishment of an echo of the peerage, or any other sub-society within the Forsaken. There is art and culture associated with it that is important to preserve. However, they must agree to the following:

1. Those who wish to join such a group do so voluntarily.

2. Those who wish to leave is may do so.

This will be the hardest hurdle as echoes of that peerage come with that sense of entitlement and lord-right.

I even don’t care if they set their own laws and rules, save they only affect those who do volunteered to accept them and they do not affect the rest of the Forsaken. That is the purview of the council… for the time being.

Alas, my hand is cramping up and I must close this. I hope we can find our way forward. For now, I will be ever watchful.

Yours in Undeath,
Gibet Gallowsborn

Noslferatu-wyrmrest-accord · August 13, 2022, 3:01am

Nos examines the wax seal. Last time he got a letter with one was from the Strawmen. He opens the letter, careful to not break the seal. After reading the letter three times, he writes a reply…

Good evening Gallowsborn,

Thank you for the letter. I rather enjoy communicating through this medium. In fact, I’ve sent letters to all the souls who’ve come to the previous Forsaken Talks.

The thought out written word conveys a more accurate intent when it enters the mind of another. Whereas the utterance of sounds must first pass through the biased ear, making the message less clear.

You’re mentor and friend sounds like a soul I’d learn a thing or two from. Indeed, a few of the souls that come out to these little public forums I host could learn more from your mentor than from me.

Excesses? That is the most mild term I’ve ever heard in reference to Arthas’ actions. And though I agree that Calia has given no indication that she seeks power, she seeks the approval of the Forsaken which is power. However, whether that power when obtained corrupts her or not, we won’t know until she achieves it.

The council keeping each other in check is perhaps the biggest reason why there isn’t a large anti-Calia movement. As to her child, well, one Menethil at a time. But, all in all I don’t object to these thoughts you two came up with. It makes sense.

The second half of this letter is the reason why I felt compelled to send a reply. Because I think much of the same way on the matter. You have explained it quite well. A recent public ceremony has caused me to reconsider my attention. Calia will be watched by the council, so i should probably keep an eye on a certain, other few.

Your consideration based off of choice is a good and balanced one. I’ve been more on the radical side in my own considerations. When Sylvanas was our queen it got me in much trouble, but I’ve learned a little from that time.

I am planning on only hosting three other Forsaken talks after this next one. I choose to redirect my energy towards the rebuilding effort. Just as you have mentioned, I think this is an opportunity to build something new. Just as our culture seemed to come into it’s own after Northrend, there should be another change now.

Each generation of Forsaken came from a different living past, risen from a different state of mind, and have different wants and desires. So even though oaths of commitment might claim to be placed on behalf of the Forsaken, such fealty is hosted by the nobility of the living days, and that is just new paint on old chains.

Thank you for sharing your perspective. I hope you are able to attend one of the later events. Others should hear what you have written and from your voice it should be uttered.

Respectfully
Nos

Symeont-wyrmrest-accord · August 17, 2022, 12:58am

No amount of speaking will ever affect change in the decisions those in power will make. We don’t gather and speak with each other for this reason though, we do it to change the way we might think or feel about what has been decided.

When Forsaken talk, all is well. When Forsaken are silent, you may be only moments away from death.

Noslferatu-wyrmrest-accord · August 19, 2022, 2:05pm

To anyone
If you are knowledgeable about the teachings of the Forgotten Shadow, please hit me up. I’d like to focus a conversation for one of these future talks regarding the Cult. Not a sermon exactly, a discussion of how Forsaken could benefit from having it more prevalent in their society. The problems too.

Capteya-wyrmrest-accord · August 20, 2022, 7:30pm

5 and a half hours until the 3rd Forsaken Talks.