Guys think this nerf or buff to our damage? Patch notes

guys think this nerf or buff to our damage?

Demon Hunter

  • Chaos Strike Slice your target for [ 93.7% [ 90% of Attack Power ] Chaos damage. Chaos Strike has a 40% chance to refund 20 Fury. Requires One-Handed Melee Weapon. 40 Fury. Melee range. Instant.

Havoc

  • Chaos Strike Slice your target for [ 93.7% [ 90% of Attack Power ] Chaos damage. Chaos Strike has a 40% chance to refund 20 Fury. Demon Hunter - Havoc Spec. Demon Hunter - Havoc Spec.
  • Mastery: Demonic Presence Increases your Chaos damage by [ 150% [ 180% of Spell Power ]% and your movement speed by [ 60% of Spell Power ]%. Demon Hunter - Havoc Spec. Demon Hunter - Havoc Spec.
  • Trail of Ruin The final slash of Blade Dance inflicts an additional [ 56% [ 53.6% of Attack Power ] Chaos damage over 4 sec. Havoc Demon Hunter - Level 102 Talent. Havoc Demon Hunter - Level 102 Talent.

Vengeance

  • Soul Cleave Viciously strike all enemies in front of you for [ 50% [ 58.5% of Attack Power ] Physical damage and heal yourself for [ 105% of Attack Power ]. Consumes up to 2 Soul Fragments within 25 yds. Requires One-Handed Melee Weapon. Demon Hunter - Vengeance Spec. Demon Hunter - Vengeance Spec. 30 Pain. Melee range. Instant.

I’m fairly certain this is a buff. Could be wrong though.

All of this would depend on your mastery amount to exactly how much +/- it is. Overall, it’s largely a non-change, perhaps a slight nerf.

Bad change since they are trying increase value of our mastery

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Havoc also gets more Mastery per point of rating on the PTR.

It only really looks like a nerf to Trail of Ruin.

Live 23.77 565 rating Increased Chaos Damage by11.77%
CS- 8741
EB- 38040
TR- 7588

PTR 28.5% 565 rating Increased Chaos Damage by14.12%
CS- 8742
EB- 39510
TR- 7544

Live 32% Mastery 962 rating Increased Chaos Damage by 20.04%

CS- 8606
EB- 37800
TR- 7472

PTR 38% mastery 962 rating Increased Chaos Damage by 24%

CS- 8692
EB- 39660
TR- 7504

3 Likes

It seems little no different for havoc. What i believe happened is they buffed Mastery to help out vengence a small bit, then had to tune down TR and CS to keep havoc pretty much exactly where it is.

It is a nerf to havoc DPS, I’m guessing somewhere between 1-2% loss .

Change bladedance to chaos dmg.
Yay… our mastery is relevant.
You’re welcome blizz.
No thanks necessary.

3 Likes

What does havoc mastery have to do with vengeance or the price of tea in China?

3 Likes

I was wondering the same thing… Havoc mastery had no bearing whatsoever on Vengeance.

This is juggling of the numbers in running where our damage scales from. Very, very small output difference.

Cleave is a buff, just not in the way we need. Though still welcome, it needs to scale with souls to normalise the SB problem.

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I like that havoc mastery isn’t as bad as it was. Waiting to see how the dust settles once simc gets updated.

(I kind of miss the crit stacking from Legion - it was fun to have a perverse interest in one stat.)

From live to PTR I lost a tiny tiny amount of trail of ruin and chaos strike damage. Mastery went from 25% to 30 %. Eye Beam got buffed in the process.

That’s about what I expected. I’m not an expert, but this looks like a change in Mastery scaling so it doesn’t fall even further behind with some time off-setting nerfs so that it’s a DPS neutral change at current gear levels.

Which is the sort of change I applaud. Keeping a bad stat from becoming a completely worthless stat is a good thing. It’s the difference between “This +15 ilvl piece with Mastery is an upgrade, but I’ll replace it if I get something with better stats” and “This +15 ilvl piece with Mastery is a downgrade, into the Shredder it goes.”

Necessary change, to make mastery less worthless for us. Where it lands on the buff/nerf scale depends on your talent allocation and stat distribution, however.

MMO-C is garbage at annotating these, though.

  • The Mastery change is from (baseline) 12% to 14%, so a 16.67% increase in potency.
  • Chaos Strike hits with both main hand and offhand, and MMO-C simply adds those percentages together (despite the offhand doing half damage). It currently hits for 36.153% MH + 57.564% OH, and will now hit for 35% MH + 55% OH. This represents a very small but non-zero increase in the proportion of its damage that comes from your main hand. Shouldn’t affect much, though, even if you have a very large difference in itemlevel between the two.
  • Both Chaos Strike and Trail of Ruin are seeing a ~4% DPS reduction (specifically, it’s a 3.75% reduction to CS and a 4.29% reduction to Trail).

Using SimC’s Havoc profile:

  • Roughly 0.25% more of our total damage is Chaos.
  • The adjustments to baseline coefficients slightly reduces (by ~1.2%) the percentage of our total damage before mastery that is affected by mastery, meaning that 1% mastery is about 3.25% less potent than it was previously.
  • The net effect of the above two is that mastery is not going to be precisely 16.67% better than it was, but slightly less (napkin math says closer to 16.15% better instead). 1 Mastery rating provides 16.67% more mastery percentage than it did previously, but each mastery percentage is only ~96.75% as effective as it was before, reducing that benefit slightly.

At the 862 rating present in the SimC profile, which grants 29.96% Chaos damage on live and 34.95% with these changes, this represents a net change of +0.22% damage. Playing with my spreadsheet, it appears that the crossover point where this becomes a net buff is approximately 650 mastery rating. It takes at least 1800 mastery rating for this to reach a 1% buff, however, so this can effectively be regarded as a wash or very minor buff.

Overall, this is a good change. Null change to negligible increase in overall output, but a substantial bump to mastery’s scaling. Running my DH through Raidbots, I see current stat weights of:

Crit    | 2.60
Vers    | 2.56
Agility | 2.30
Haste   | 2.13
Mastery | 2.03

If we assume the change to mastery won’t have a significant impact on the other stat weights (it’ll definitely have some impact, but it’s unlikely to be significant compared to the change to mastery), this would suggest my new stat weights would be roughly:

Crit    | 2.60
Vers    | 2.56
Mastery | 2.36
Agility | 2.30
Haste   | 2.13

Total secondary spread (the percentage difference in value between my best and my worst secondary stat) has been reduced from 21.9% to 18.1%, a positive change. Mastery has moved to middle-of-the-pack, avoiding it drastically upending our stat priorities while simply making mastery-containing gear less detrimental compared to alternatives.

Xaedys gives +2 upward thumbs.

Edit: made a boo-boo in the calcs, the above has been updated.

Also, as a brief aside, this very slightly decreases the proportion of our damage that comes from CS and Trail, while increasing the proportion that comes from Eye Beam (since it’s the only Chaos source in our dominant build that did not see a coefficient nerf).

That said, AoE does not appear to significant alter the character of the changes. Using the DungeonSlice report on SimC instead, the net change is +0.26% (compared to the 0.22% for ST above).

15 Likes

Numbers to back up ones claim, what a novel idea. Thanks for the detailed information. It will be nice to see mastery not fall completely into garbage status.

2 Likes

It will be a net increase of our dps since our Azerite Essences will more or less increase our times in Meta form. Meta form = more Chaos damage, more mastery = more chaos damage.

Since both Chaos Strike and Annihilation are seeing a ~4% DPS loss, increasing the proportion of our damage that comes from Annihilation relative to everything else (except Chaos Strike) actually reduces our damage compared to how it would have been without this change. Shouldn’t be sufficient to alter the geometry of the change, though.

Has anyone been simming the DPS on PTR w/ the added essences, especially now that there’s a release candidate running?

I’ve not. But then, excepting a couple short log-ins to test some mechanics for a forum post, I’ve not logged into WoW in a couple months now. Game just isn’t holding my interest anymore, and 3 years of near-continuous AP grinding has simply burned me the heck out.

Edit: …why am I a worgen…?

Oh jesus, it randomly swapped my toon for no reason. These forums, I tell ye…

Not since some of the better ones got savagely tuned down.