I have played MMORPGs since 1998 and WoW since Beta Vanilla, so I have a little experience. I have played all the big MMORPGs and some not so big ones. WoW is one of the most fun games I have played and this is why it’s been something I have played for what 19 years or whatever it’s been. However since Vanilla it has changed a lot. I think leveling is to blame. Games that I loved that don’t implement leveling are games like DAoC and GW2 to name a few. So how do people play a no leveling game? Well it’s all about armor and honor or Mastery.
So why get rid of the leveling system and just do gear only? Well simply put Blizzard could reopen raids from all expansions. Simply making the gear better then your guild can easily raid and get good gear. Yes they have a semi similar system but it isn’t end game. You have to do the new expansion to get the best gear. But why? Why can’t you get amazing gear in old vanilla expansions still? Building a Hero system that makes it so you can enjoy all the content as it should be enjoyed and you build up a “Heroe System”.
If all you have played is WoW and not tried games like DAoC or GW2 then you simply don’t understand the end game boringness that Blizzard forces us to do. Except a few end game things like raids and timewalker events honestly I do everything solo as a Bear Tank. I can solo all content even content that requires 5-man. Nothing is challenging for me just time. A 5-man quest just takes me a little more time to kill solo.
In GW2 you will see a group of 100 people run by you doing some insane end game events. Group events require groups. So you can’t solo it, like I simply do. Hopefully for all WoW players Blizzard hires several people from GW2 to improve end game systems. I love WoW so much. I remember back in 1992 playing Warcraft and then my first MMORPG and thinking I truly hope Warcraft becomes a MMORPG and then it did and I have loved the game ever since. So don’t think I am hating on the game. I just want it to go another 20 years and be engaging and fun and full of people. I hate that we have so many servers and not many people on my server anymore. I just think if Blizzard developers were told play GW2 or EQ2 heck even DAoC. That way their developers can see other games that are successful and have massive end game content without leveling every expansion. Because we use to be level 120 then we went back to 50. Now we are going back up. But why? Their is really no point in it. Get ride of levels and just add Heroe systems and allow content to grow with each expansion. So everything you have developed is still used. It is sad to see these amazing raids just used to get money and mounts and gear looks.
I like gw2 a lot, but topics like this are really weird. It’s kinda like going to a religious event to extol the virtues of your cult of Mephisto or something.
You didn’t do that tldr properly. Try reading the post first.
Edit: I’m not agreeing with OP as I like leveling. But to dismiss anyone wanting to add something to WoW by saying “go play that game” is absolutely ignorant. Do you have any idea how many gameplay elements that WoW took from other games and actually did it better? A lot. So quit dismissing people outright because they like features from other games.
WoW community has some weird thing where if you suggest anything from other games (Even though they added dragonriding which is an inferior version of GW2’s) they will tell you to go play that other game instead. The community here doesn’t like feedback that relates to what other games do better.
So you want us to buy Dragonflight, the new expansion and gear up from Vanilla? After 30-days of gaming, you geared up on Vanilla without touching Dragonflight? Cant you realize how stupid is that idea?
I also played Vanilla and all its expansions. When I play WoW, I want to play the most current game. After spending years on old expansion before when they were current, I dont like to come back to it.
Guild Wars is living with its old content. When there’s new content, it’s harder to group up for it becoz players there rather play the old content. I hate that system. If there is a new one, I agree to discard the old one.
But modern WoW now is trying to reuse old dungeons like what’s happening on M+. They updated old dungeons for Mythic+ and updated its loots. I am okay with that instead of playing the same M+ for multiple seasons.
At the last Season, they would implement Fated Raids where we could play Season 1 Raid, Season 2 Raid and Season 3 Raid dungeon on the last Season.
BUt I havent imagine redoing old Raid dungeons on Retail. Redoing old Raid dungeons on WoW means you play Classic. That would be fine if I want to go back in time.
BTW, WoW doesnt need to benchmark a weaker MMO. WoW is doing great as it is.
Didn’t we just get a patch where we all run around a zone killing event bosses and opening chests and other crap just like in GW2 where I run around a zone killing event bosses and opening chests and other crap?
Its a hot take but with the whiners aboard and them trying to cater to everyone and no one, I doubt we’re going anywhere on this ship atm. Atleast not positively anytime soon. You take away levelling and I guarantee that before you talk to the players, the dev’s higher-ups would shoot this idea down. Just like how they keep trying to make raiding something because it was something for like a decade. Taking away levelling would be a bigger cut into their comfort zones on what they want Wow to be.
Some people really enjoy leveling so I don’t agree that removing it would be a good idea. I do however think it’s possible to have lots of GW2 type content that can be done after leveling is complete for a more varied, progressive end game.
i did play gw2 , the first time it came around and one more time a couple of years ago. it’s a good game but far from exciting end game. abandoned dungeons , people speed running to get mastery points , nothing exciting when it comes to gear progression etc it’s a good alternative , no point changing wow
Luke thanks for trying. But we live in an age and society were people don’t read or care about facts or anything beyond their opinions.
Wow has taken so many things from other games and done it better. They haven’t been around for almost 20 years with WoW as their bread winner. I love WoW a ton. I want to see it grow and be around another 20 years. But I don’t want to just level another 20 years. Have them squish every 10 years. We need a better system like Hero classes.
What would a Hero class look like? Well let’s take a basic class and give it more. Warrior Arms, Fury & Prot. Prot could have say the ability to pick classic sword and board or start specializing in more def and hold dual shields with spikes on them to do DPS but be a master of defense. While maybe a fury war can stay a plat wearing dual wielder or go chainmail and go dual wield 1h weapons and can insane speed and avoidance parrying dodging. Or Arms can wield a 2h weapon or go more def and become another tank class using a Polearm and shield giving an different style of tanking and another tank. But again it would be a choice based on your hero points and how you choose to depend your class.
Another example Priest. Shadow, holy & Disc. Shadow could as a hero class go DPS like it is and go deep into that or go shadow healer. Using their shadow DPS to heal as they dmg. Holy could go full on healer angel level or could go more DPS healer were as they heal it DPS in a small AOE around who they healed. While disc can go full on holy DPS or go full blown shielder.
I don’t have all the answers but we need a better system then to level, get gear then new expansion it becomes meaningless gear and we level again and get new gear. That epic orange item you got should be allowed to grow with you and you should be allowed to say spend hero points to scale it up and improve it more. For example I have a few orange legendary items from when it mattered like the legendary 2h hammer. It was amazing when I had it on my Shaman and they did triple wind fury crits with a 2h hammer. I could if the stars lined up one shot someone. A weapon like that should not become obsolete but grow with you if you want it to.
These are just ideas not attacks on players. Allowing us to grow as players and when you see 30 people running past you in shinny epic gear you think “what are they doing? How can I join them?” Like I did when I played for example DAoC and we got 100+ people together to kill an epic legendary dragon it was amazing and felt like killing a dragon. You could not kill it with 5 people back in the day. You had epic people and you had normal people but everyone felt like they mattered and had a job.
We seem to be missing that these days. Yes we have guilds that do amazing things. But I am seeing heroics and mythic+ being run without healers. Which should never happen. I personally on my bear tank can kill on my own 10+ elite level 70s on my own. I honestly hate killing 1-2 at a time because it’s a waste of time. I can easily heal myself and DPS myself. I kill anything that takes 5 or less people on my own. The MMORPG has become way to soloable. There are fun parts don’t get me wrong. There are so many fun things to do on the game. And I do like leveling and doing quests. I just wish once you got to the max level you could simply do everything and you gain something like Hero points to truly improve your character. So for example the the one girl who got 100% of the achievements would be a true force to be reckoned with. She would become a player who ended up in the story for example because she has becomes known by the game. Or you can as a guild own a business and your characters can work their so when your away from the game say your blacksmith can make items for players new old epic or just starting in your guild store. Making your character a true part of the game once you have reached a certain amount of hero points.
New players would be playing the game and a quest would come up to help you the older heroic player with getting materials or helping you kill something. With things like AI and ChatGPT we can start to see a growing changing story that includes guilds or players who stand out and do their best. I just hope the game doesn’t fail but I see it losing players so fast now. I don’t want the game to end up having only 100k players on two servers. So I hope Blizzard sees posts like mine and think maybe that would be interesting or maybe that would be a nifty idea.
“Horizontal” progression:
Bis > 2nd bis > 3rd bis > etc.
Other games, like ESO and GW2 still have the exact same outcomes. New expansion comes out, there’s new items that are just… better. There’s new content that’s just… better. They just obfuscate it. “It’s the same ilvl therefore its horizontal progression!”.
Allow me to introduce you to Timewalking. Scaled content. Everyone gets squished to the same level, with access to gear from every expansion - all of which is “viable” because of the item level squish. Suddenly certain items (MoP cloak, heart of azeroth, azerite armor etc) are worth 10 times any other item in the slot.
I’d be so happy if all that came true. But, I have to be brutally honest, I feel the current dev team does NOT have the capability to pull it off. They need fresh blood and a new perspective. Frankly, I also doubt the people listening to the quarterly calls want things shaken up like that. They just don’t like risk. So we keep getting the same old formula expansion after expansion.
Dragonflight isn’t by any means a bad expansion. I’m just extremely bored with it. I’ve since moved on from WoW, moreso for personal reasons. I need a hobby that makes me excited to sign in and have some fun to distract me from my real life issues that I can’t currently change. And I want a game that will inspire me to write short stories, RP, or draw my characters. I haven’t been inspired to do ANY of that since MoP. And that’s not because of real life, I do all of this and more for my FFXIV character. That’s why I broke up with WoW.
Sorry Blizz. It’s not me, it’s you, and you’re boring.
