I’m posting on an alt for obvious reasons, but a couple of days ago I was doing heroic Nya with guild. We killed first few bosses, with some difficulty, then proceeded to Vexiona, which we’ve been stuck on for several weeks. We put 5 attempts in. Each time, multiple people died to her breath, and multiple corruptions were dropped in or near the raid.
After the 5th attempt, I spoke out, saying that those who have been unable to do these mechanics correctly should simply be removed from the raid. I got a lot of backlash about how this is a casual guild and how they don’t appreciate elitist attitudes. I explained that just because we’re casual, doesn’t mean we should be okay with never progressing, or that we shouldn’t hold people accountable for their performance. But there was a general consensus that I’m being unreasonable.
Any opinions on this? Is it unreasonable to expect casual guilds to still hold raiders accountable?
If you are progressing through heroic raiding this late in the expansion, you sorta have to accept that in a casual guild you will have some casual play. This is expected. I am not passing judgement on the casual play, I am not saying its wrong. Only that it is.
Also, I would look to see if there is a way to stream line the breath phase, if its giving yall that much of an issue. As in, having a singular person call it out. The breath can be baited. You can have everyone stack near the ledge, then more to the middle, for example.
Its not unreasonable to expect casual guilds to hold raiders accountable, but at the same time you have to sorta…casually…hold them accountable.
Find a better guild. If you’re at the point where you think that the people you’re playing with are garbage and holding your progression back, you need to move up. You can’t force anybody into gameplay goals that they themselves don’t have. For the type of folks who defend bad players, they’re in it for the social aspect, not progression. If your priority is progression, you will need to hop between guilds and climb over time.
When I made my big push in WoD-Legion, I went from a mid heroic guild to a cutting edge mythic guild, but I had to hop ship and join a better guild 4 times to get there. The guilds I was in in MoP and early WoD would never have been able to keep up with where I ended up.
If your goal is progression, and you value that over your guild’s community, just move on. They’re holding you back, and you’re disturbing their social ecosystem with your ambition.
If you think people need to be kicked from your guild group after a measly five attempts, then raiding isn’t for you. That fight is not easy on heroic and good guilds sometimes take weeks to learn the mechanics.
The number of pulls is irrelevant. Your desire and goals are clearly not the same for the rest of the guild, and that’s okay. Just means you have to look for a new guild. More friendships to come.
I think you need to figure out what the goals of the guild are and what your goals are. If your goals don’t match up, then it’s probably best for you to find a different guild.
If these players are truly incompetent/will never get it down, then your suggestion seems right.
If they can be be taught/made aware of their mistakes/be given clearer instructions, that should be the go-to. I’m guessing you guys tried that. It is a chill guild run after all.
IMO, it’s just one of those fights. I have more trouble finding a successful pug for heroic Vexiona than I do N’zoth. Patience required, and only replace a guildie if necessary. After markers were placed, discord call outs, multiple wipes…then you switch em out if no progress is made. More than 5 attempts for a new experience, imo (and only because they’re guildies).
With Vex it’s a placement issue. Drag her to the wall so people can dump on the wall in time. When in phase you must put 3 markers down, one per row. It’s all about well placed call out’s on when to move. Never ever expect people hyper focused on dps number to pay attention to minor mechanic que’s. They absolutely SHOULD but realistically they aren’t going to. So calling things out dependably saves you a ton of wipes.
Also on the last phase our tanks split the group and dump on the group every other time.
There are 2 types of casual guilds. Casual guilds that also raid and actual casual raid guilds. I’ve been in both and it’s a night and day difference. My Legion guild was the former. There were a few of us that wanted to progress in heroic but it just wasn’t happening. When our GM retired I became the GM and along with the others we thought we could change things so we could actually progress but no amount of coaching helped. We pretty much plateaued at normal. All of us raiders left and joined different guilds that suited our needs. As far as I know my old guild is still chugging along as a casual guild.
My current raid team is casual. We raid 1 night a week. Get Aotc every tier. Our raid leader calls out mistakes and people make corrections and we progress and clear the raids.
Like Turnberry said. Find a guild that fits your needs.
Yes and no. It is, but it’s up to the guild to decide that level. You weren’t necessarily wrong, but also it wasn’t your place to say that people should be removed.
It sounds like your goals and the goals of the guild aren’t compatible, honestly. And there’s nothing wrong with that. It’s not even that you’re an elitist (I mean, you might be but this doesn’t indicate it), but it sounds like you want something a bit more serious than the guild wants. A lot of guilds don’t see wiping 5 times in a night on a fight as a big deal, while some do.
It just sounds like you want something other than what you are getting with this guild.
Saying people should be removed does not equal holding people accountable. This is a poor management strategy and does nothing to help people learn, especially for a casual guild. Essentially you tried imposing a pugs “baddies = kicked” attitude into a friends and family casual raid environment, LOL. I mean, come on guy. Did you really think that would fly?
But if you are genuinely interested in your teammates getting better and you’re not just some impatient kid with a bad attitude, then get involved. If you know the mechanics and see other people failing them … Perhaps offer a friendly suggestion like, “what helps me …” or maybe talk to the raid lead after and offer suggestions. BUT … if you go this route and you start offering suggestion, you must be careful about it. Don’t say it in an impatient and frustrated tone, say it friendly. make sure people know that you’re not coming down on them. It’s a casual guild after all and progression isn’t regularly the highest priority over feeling safe and having fun
That said, if you have done all this and you have been super friendly and helpful and the raid lead still can’t get people to learn the mechanics, then perhaps this is your time to move on and find another guild that can meet your goals.