That’s a false equivalency though. Having a dialogue isn’t suddenly “caving to lobbyists”. It’s just having a dialogue. Even more important, it’s among the player base because it’s pretty obvious that Blizz isn’t taking part here.
Also, just because some of them have been chomping at the bit for over a decade doesn’t mean that they (no-change OR pro-change) gets to shut down the other and expect to run things how they want.
Fancy that, because we already know they aren’t.
I agree. Having a dialogue isn’t caving to lobbyists. However, it is considering caving to lobbyists and the dialogue being solely among players doesn’t help. In fact, it might make things worse. As this debate has shown, players don’t always disagree in the most respectful of ways.
Speaking solely for myself, I would say this: I’m not opposed to a dialogue. However, I am opposed to a dialogue with anybody who refuses to even consider anything but their own point of view which is something both sides are guilty of. Is there a solution? I don’t know. I’d suggest a waiting period of X number of months to see how not having GBs affects the game (e.g. I have no clue as to the logistics involved in Vanilla end game) and go from there, but I think that would ultimately do nothing but extend the debate well beyond its natural (or unnatural) lifespan.
To add more authenticity we’re going to make the game simulate you have a 1mb/s adsl connection so you can experience the same lag and data package loss than in 2006.
So let us add right click report/squelch, loot trading, sharding and bnet chat. As well as graphic upgrades for 16x9 support.
Is what that paragraph should of ended with.
People today have no concept of trust. For one reason or another, I feel it’s been stripped out of today’s society as we are inundated with false info all over the place- and we are left to pick and choose what info we want to hear.
That being said, trust is and was a major factor within the Vanilla community. You had reputable crafters, you had to trust GM’s with Guild bank items, trust your 5 man pug wouldn’t role on that item, that was best for your class and so on. Where reputation was everything and our community sorted out most problems by just simply being proactive.
The system itself, created a community not the other way around. I am against guild banks. Bring trust back to Azeroth!
(Not allowed to link yet)
Check out our Guild Recruitment, here on the Classic forums.
[Orc Forge Classic Recruitment] us.forums.blizzard. com/en/wow/t/orc-forge-horde-na-rp-pvp-casual-core/80832/6
Or check out our continually updated, [Discord]: discord.gg/R4bUrrD
Funny this thread hasn’t been flagged for spam as a repeat topic.
Guess we have a good idea which side abuses that “feature”…the same side saying right click report in game will be abused. LOL
Absolutely priceless.
Anyways since you want discussion and your own thread. Here we go:
If you fail to see guild banks as anything but in the spirit of Vanilla you don’t understand the spirit of Vanilla or maybe some do understand the free gold stream that guild bank alts (gba’s hench forth).
They provide a community goal. (spirit of Vanilla)
They allow officers to be in game more instead of updating out of game databases.(spirit of Vanilla and updating data bases is NOT gameplay)
2.Which provides them more time in game to strengthen community bonds.(spirit of Vanilla)
2.b In turn builds stronger more engaged communities.(oh look more Spirit of Vanilla)
3.b-We don’t need this to contribute to a reason to slip sharding in at prime time or in major cities.(Bit of Spirit of Vanilla there for ya too)
This is NOT an end all insurmountable task.
They did it once and they can do it again.
Hobbyists have been setting up servers and modifying games for decades.
Besides the fact it is literally what blizz does. LOL
Then went on to add loot sharing, right click report, bnet and possible use of sharding. Which we still don’t know the extent of.
All of thise arguably effect the “experience”.
Which blizz keeps referring to. It’s a classic experience.
When they spoke about core gameplay tgey spoke about questing, leveling, and fight mechanics.
Not one mention of storage.
So yes indeed a classic experience with guild banks very well could be considered.
Fair point. However unless the guild tab is set to free for all or the recieving party has permissions. They would still have to engage another person to finish the transaction.
So they would still be at the mercy of inconvenience.
So not really the instant loophole in every circumstance.
Why would they leave a loop hole like mail/alt storage to bypass inventory management?
If it was so important as has been claimed in this on going discussion.
I have admitted that there are certain qol conveniences that come along with guild banks.
It was in one of these threads. I’m surprised you missed it being here since the begining and all.
The good that come with them far outweigh the slight qol tgey provide mostly to the officers tracking inventories.
As pointed out they can use that free time ti strengthen community.
I’ve also had a discussion about how gba’s are much more convenient that gb’s depending on the circumstance and from who’s PoV.
There are more mailboxes in Azeroth than there are cities with bank access.
Which is another discussion.
Yes. We know that is why there have been 13 capped threads one long continuous thread and now this.
This has been thought about and thoroughly dissected from almost every angle.
That is also why this has been the longest on going classic discussion.
I do think it is at a point that blizz shoukd weigh in but I think we’ve been at that point on most wow topics. LOL
Yes it did have a different social dynamic.
It was a different time. A different era. The people were 14 years younger!
Quite a lot has changed since then.
At their core GB’s and GBA’s do the exact same thing.
They store items for tge guild community to use and contribute to helping each other.
The only difference is in game tracking and an in game UI that the whole guild can see.
If permissions are set so only officers can withdraw you still force the same “social” interaction you would if they are using GB’s or logging onto an alt to retrieve the item.
Further more in thus situation the officer us inconvenienced because he has to go to a major city to make the withdrawal.
Which is more inconvenient? Logging out for 2 mins to log onto a toon sitting in a major city or gaving to fly to a major city from parts unknown?
So really the whole convenience debate boils down to PoV.
Which i did indeed concede in a debate on this angle.
So they added bnet, loot sharing, and possibly sharding. All of which I’d argue affect that very social dynamic.
So. Not putting much stock in what anyone at blizz says especially when they immediately go against what they are saying.
They have less cred with me than the weather people in Michigan.
No one is disputing this. It is the only point that can not be argued.
Now where have I heard this copypasta before.
It’s been shown more than once there is more to it than QoL.
Suppression of a good idea with bad ideaology has held our species back for millennia.
Actually you and another poster keep bringing up convenience. (I wonder…)
You’re right because there’s more to it than convenience byt you keep saying qol and convenience.
Even though that has been shown to be dependant on PoV for the users of either banking system.
Yes and “Classic Experience” means what blizz sees as the Classic Experience.
Yes. With or with out them we will get by. Some just won’t contribute to gba’s and some will get free epic mounts or make real money of the scam that gba’s have the potential if being.
I am all for more player choice but this isn’t a game play choice.
This is a workaround storage management choice. Lol
Oh yea this isn’t immersion breaking at all.
This is definitely what was untended.
Just shot the “inventory management is core gameplay” argument right in the foot there didn’t ya. LOL
You’re limping.
Bam and the other foot as well.
Now you’re on the ground.
We know how far that goes in online gaming.
We can trust them with a log, traceabilty, and a bit more transparency too.
Which you just said we could bypass by choosing to use alts as storage.
You just took a self exploded mortar.
You have no leg to stand on with this line of argument.
Which is what you’re doing making the bank alts in the first place? Don’t forget that.
So you’re talking about personal guikd banks as storage here?
You’re starting to go a bit all over the place here. If you are referring to personal guikd banks:
That is why IF blizz thinks personal guild banks are detrimental to core game play they can add restrictions to prevent it.
However if blizz does NOT care. Which they have never giving any indication of caring in the slightest since they were added.
Then so what? People pay for sigs which is a positive for the economy.
Gold being moved around in the economy, small source of gold for new players/low level alts.
Ofc the gold sink which is the first tab and so on.
Also those tabs still require bags and so will that personal guild bank alt.
So I’m guessing here but those positives sound like long-term they outweigh a slight decrease in short-term bag sales that ling term will eventually be almost non-existent.
In the long term ofc.
Blizz makes this call.
Note all of these were shown to have holes in them. Again.
Oh god what have I done. Incoming entire post quote. LOL
Sorry guys. OP wants discussion.
Let’s discuss.
Note all of these were shown to have holes in them. Again.
Too naïve and ignorant. You lost Padrepwn, get over it.
My post has 11 likes in 11 hours. Yours has 9 in 2.5 months. Seems the community dislikes guild banks. Everything else you say is irrelevant. Wait for TBC and stay far from Classic if all you are going to do is request QoL features.
I see you are getting on all your alt accounts again to upvote everything you say. Sad life being you huh?
All good logic fatherpawn. I suspect that the OP absolutely does not want discussion, hence he/she declaring the verdict is in.
There is one common theme in the threads that I read- either the no-changers report people who posit change as trolls because "you troll by mere suggestion of a change OR they find you incredulous and a classic hater if your vision is differentthan theirs.
I’m coming to understand that the no-changers are just afraid that Blizz will actually contemplate some of our request changes and it makes them go on absolute tilt to the point where they just want to silence.
Forums don’t work that way though. This is supposed to be a place that facilitates a meeting of the minds. It is absolutely ok for us to disagree. It is something different when fear drives some to try to silence dialogue.
#guildbankftw
For all the good reasons I supported in your 1000 response thread.
Edit: there are a few no-changers who really do engage in tit for tat dialogue. While I disagree with matcauthon on so many things, he is one of the best zealous advocates for no-changers and he is willing to engage.
Hey look a known troll backing up Padrepwn again to annoy the majority. Reported…
How are players like Whiskee not banned from the forums for repeatedly trolling?
If you actually read my post directly above yours and call that trolling, I dont know what to tell you…
Yes. I will take your lack of rebuttal to my rebuttals of your OP as such.
Did I now?
Please link a source for this victory?
Nothing for me to get over. Even if guikd banks don’t make it in I will still enjoy classic.
I just won’t be as engaged in donations as some will be.
That’s not my loss. That’s me selling what I would have donated to help someone.
Instead i will get my epic mount sooner.
Spirit of Vanilla and all.
OMEGLUL!
So that is what this is really about. You don’t want discussion.
You’re here for the feel good likes.
Here let me help you out. I’ll give ya some love.
Want me to log onto some alts so the “community” can be heard? LOL
You may think so but blizz may not.
When you buy my rig, pay my cable, and the rest of my cost of living (and my shar pei’s) then you might be able to tell me what I can or can not play.
Oh look I paid all that this month. Again.
Maybe next month you can hook a bro up.
This is truly laughable. None of those are mine.
I’m the guy advocating for bnet tags to be added to every avatar and forum stats/rep levels to be account wide.
To discourage the blatant alt brigading, mass flagging, and general trolling this mutiple avatar system is beung abused with.
In short. It is hampering communication and feedback more than it facilitates it.
Again though. You don’t know me and you’ve thrown out a bunch of repeated points in an attempt to engage conversation on the topic of guild banks that have been rebuttaled and your rebuttal is to acuse me of something I detest without any thought out rebuttals.
LOL
Should I take that as a “victory” in the debate realm?
Probably not. Seeing how your goal was likes and not discussion.
Here ya go. Have some love. Its what ya posted for.
Guild Banks were in vanilla, they were called an Officer Alt that all the officers had access to. Blizzard doesn’t like account sharing so they should just put in a guild bank that doesn’t require account sharing.
If they more aggressively go after account sharing than they did in Vanilla, then that is a change from Vanilla and shouldn’t be allowed to do either.
likes means approval. My post has more, thus more popular opinion. True Classic players win, retail players lose. Go play retail while you wait for TBC and then try to add QoL features to that. Stop spamming.
The small amount that posts here , reads here is a very very small part of any community, I would not hold it up as too much of anything.
You make a repeat topic to get likes and I’m spamming? LOL
You then make this long winded drawn out post to say “no changes. Like me!”
Since you’re equating a gameable system such as the like system on the forums to community opininon:
As I pointed out earlier in your thread: This wasn’t mass flagged for spam so I guess we know which side employs that tactic the most.
So I guess you and 2 people liking your post with your alts can’t be considered “COMMUNITY opininion”. LOL
Wow.
Nurse huh? At least you hopefully won’t need debate skills…comprehesion though. Yikes!
Oh you mean like how you continuously say no changes only has one point and that it wasn’t in Classic yet you still are asking for changes? You haven’t listened to a single thing Blizzard has said other than sharding and loot trading and are using that as an excuse to add guild banks. It wasn’t spammed with mass flag because people agree with it and its the first time a guild bank post has been made that is against it. Get over it bud! TBC has guild banks. Wait for TBC if you absolutely need guild banks.
Yes, Nurse. You have a problem with people who help others that are sick? You have the audacity to try and insult me? Get a life and stop trying to attack peoples personal lives. New low for you today.
If this were even remotely true let me tell ya sister I have a platoon of alts. 1 account is near the 50 toon cap.
I also have 3 more accounts.
No where near that many toons but if I did employ that tactic do you think I’d leave my thread at so low of likes for 5 months? LOL
I mean if I wanted to show community opinion and all I can easily drive that love button up.
Whats this though? I haven’t???
Next…
What? How can a dialogue, by people not involved in the actual development, potentially make things worse. Can’t it potentially make things better too?
Mind that there is a marked difference between a dialogue and a bunch of trolls fighting over a dead horse. The forum, and internet in general, trends strongly towards the latter unfortunately.
Case in point. Strong, well reasoned arguments and counter points there.
A mere 11 likes, even in this small community, isn’t something to brag about. I just started posting here a few weeks ago and I have a post with 13 or so; I guess I’m more popular than you are so you should in turn stop posting? According to your logic, that holds up right?
If you want counter points just read the opening post. The likes comment is about timeframe not how many. If I posted this right after a Classic announcement, it is clear the forum would be used by a lot more people and thus would have more feedback.