Guild Bank Missing Items Update

Yeah, here’s another novella . . . :face_with_diagonal_mouth:

So, I didn’t lose things that were irreplaceable. But I do want to say what I DID lose mattered to me - certainly not as much as the people who lost personal letter and stuff no longer in the game - I’d never want to minimize that, but it did matter. Now, MOST of what I lost were mats and recipes and I know that they are “refarmable.” We’re talking about 18 years of it - a lot of it I squirreled away stuff I got from doing things, but I got fair bit of it from actual FARMING.

A lot of the stuff are hard to get and pretty random. Most of the cloth, not too bad. I can probably get Some of the enchanting mats quite easily. Now the AMOUNT of it is pretty tough - some, I had over a stack, maybe several stacks. (And of course the ones that I actually have TOO MUCH of, were among the few things that I still have some of remaining - that would be the common cloth from Shadowlands). Some of the ones that made me sad to lose were things like Felcloth and the some of the crafted CD cloth from the Burning Crusade and Wrath. Once transmogs became learnable, I RECREATED my Spellfire set. Keep in mind, going into TBC content, I was pretty much godly at that point. Even then, farming for the mats took quite a bit of time. Luckily, back then, I had some of the mats, and I got extra in case someone else needed the same or similar mats later on.

What DOES take quite a bit of time farming, even when being very powerful, are the elemental items and other misc. items. Things like Breaths of wind, essence of water (OMG - had been farming that as late as earlier this year and the droprates are ridiculously low), and in fact, other Elemental X (where X is some kind of element), Essence of X (earth, undeath, etc), fiery core, various Motes/Primals, various Crystalized /Eternal X, and all of the other Elemental items from all of the expansions. But a lot of them are a pain to farm. Doable? Sure but it took YEARS to accumulate. Also Spider Silk - yeah, the basic one - oddly hard to get. Motes of Harmony, I mostly got from growing them in MoP - took a long time. Also odds and ends like righteous orbs, various pearls, wildvine / heart of the wild (used for some tailoring recipes). Then, there are the special mats, like Primal Nether, chaos orbs, primordial saronite, spirit of war, savage blood, felblight and that’s a partial list.

They may be just STUFF, but here’s me as a player. Pretty casual, have done some dungeons and raids, mostly solo or small content stuff. I’m not a great player. I don’t have great reflexes. But what I am (was) is prepared. Whenever someone wanted (especially, past expansion) crafting mats, I almost always had it. If someone was leveling old professions, I could offer them a myriad of recipes I had on hand. Wanted a tailored item for mog? Most likely had the mats and I could probably make it for ya. Illusion enchantments? Yep, just swap toons, get on my banke toon, get my stuff and do it. Last expansion, you could get a particular toy ONLY if you had a particular cloak from Vanilla. Well, I had the mats - I made the base cloak on my tailor, sent it to my LW, and luckily, I had some Scales of Onyxia to finish it off. I could ask my friends and guild if they had gotten the toy and if not, I’d just make them a cloak and send it to them. When we have celebrations like special guild anniversaries, I like sending fun stuff - usually just fireworks and cake, but also, sometimes, toys and pets that I could craft. And I could do so with no issue since I HAD THE MATS on hand.

I’m like the guy with a garage full of stuff or that lady who carries a huge purse that’s got a screwdriver, sewing kit and a coin-purse full of toothpicks that people could come to for the odds and ends that they might not usually keep but would need for something specific. When someone would say “OMG, I need X, but expensive on the AH,” or “don’t wanna farm it,” there was a fair chance that I had it. And they’d be happy.

I don’t HAVE to do those things to be a part of my community but I liked doing it. I liked being that person. I have friends from waaay back, who would advise people to come to me for stuff like that because “Sarabande has everything.” OK, not EVERYTHING, but to some people, it sure seemed like it. Maybe it’s a crazy way to play. But it was one of the things I did and enjoyed. They won’t stop being my friends or be mad that I can’t provide those things, but it makes me sad that I can’t anymore.

Early on, when I started playing WoW, one of the things that really got me into it was professions and knowing that I could make things for myself and other people I knew. (NOT so much into professions now - it’s just too much). It was one of the things that actually got me to fall in love with the game. It wasn’t dungeons, wasn’t raids, wasn’t PvP - I gathered stuff and I made stuff, and of course, did quests.

Some of my banks survived fine (thank goodness, the PET bank was untouched - was able to give some holiday pets to a guildie who is trying to reach an achievement milestone). But the main bank - the one that held mats for professions practiced by my main, the tailor/enchanter, got hit the hardest. It shook me in a way that losing “just pixels” shouldn’t. Because it hit one of the things I delighted in doing for my community, one of the things that drew me into the game.

Saying all this won’t change anything. And for some people it’s going to sound stupid and petty and I know that it’s a first-world problem. But all of these losses hit each person hard for various reasons. Saying “it’s just pixels” doesn’t help. Everyone knows they’re “just pixels” but they were meaningful pixels for whatever reason. Could be sentimental. Could be due to gold value and time value. Could be because they are impossible or very difficult to replace. Could be because it actually TOOK them a lot of time and effort to get. But for each person, it is meaningful.

While this doesn’t compare to losing a loved one, a pet or REAL stuff (like a house or real-like material stuff), it’s still a loss and people here are grieving the loss. And the worst part is, it most likely was done as a part of greed - to cut staff, to rush product, to not test enough. They got their money. They were able to please their shareholders and we were hurt as a result. I don’t think anger on our part is unreasonable.

Let people be angry. Let us be sad. Let people even try to bargain, no matter how futile. Many will leave. Some will hang on, only to realize that the joy is gone, and some will keep going because they are a part of a community or other reasons. But for now, allow people to deal with this, to process this in the way they need to. How hard is that to understand? Why hang out here to argue with people who are just trying to get through this, mostly with the help of others who went through the same thing, the only people who can probably empathize with what they are going through? If you are OK with what happened, go and play the game. You are certainly ALLOWED here but I if you can’t help, not sure why you are even here anyway.

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Massively Overpowered has an article that touches on this fiasco, among other MMO disasters.

It’s one of their Massively Overthinking columns, titled " Do you expect compensation for MMORPG trainwrecks?" The various columnists chime in.

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Good read, imo. Various opinions and viewpoints, but they all wrote their pieces well. I’d second the suggestion for people to go read it if they haven’t.

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I had hoped that this week’s maintenance might produce some restored items, but it seems not. My damages: 2 guild banks, both hammered. One of these banks included hundreds of stacks of crafting items, representing thousands of individual items collected over two decades, not a single one of which was restored.

I’m astonished that the dev team would push such a consequential change to live servers without testing it first. An entire guild bank getting wiped out is neither subtle nor hard to notice, and hundreds, if not thousands of players were affected. The only way they missed this bug is if they didn’t look.

I’m even more astonished at the almost complete indifference with which Blizzard has treated this data loss. Reading the posts in this thread, and the thread that was locked in bugs forum, it’s evident this event has left many players hurt and angry, and so far Blizzard has shown no concern for the harm they caused. “We deleted items that you spent years collecting and that were personally significant to you? shrug That’s not a thing that’s important to us. Now give us money for this buggy expansion we pushed to market before it was ready.”

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Thank you for this. Might not seem like a lot, but it’s so appreciated.

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Sorry, it seemed like you were saying the opposite.

Other people are constantly harassing people with full banks, probably people who only play a fraction of the game. Holding onto crafting materials when you have thousands of things to craft is not hoarding. People put in time, that they paid for, to gather mats. When they disappear that means we got to use more of their personal time, as well as the game time they pay for, to get more, or spend the gold they were saving for something else, assuming that didn’t also disappear.

The banks exist to hold items, and should be stable, regardless of what it is or why the player decides to keep it.

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Yea no. I am definitely a hoarder lol.

And no one has a say in how you choose to use your space. It’s YOUR space after all. But it’s also okay to admit you ARE a hoarder :wink:
Nothing wrong with it.

I’ll show you what just 2 of my bags look like. This stuff never leaves my person. That should give you an idea what my bank looks like lol.
It’s just stuff. But it’s stuff I took a lot of time to get. Like in my backpack. Top left. That is Zin’Rohk from archeology. I spent YEARS farming that thing. Months in cata because it was a bis weapon for awhile, then a very long time in legion.
Or bottom left of the same bag. That is my jaina’s locket from doing shadowmourne legendary quest. Also have shadowmourne. My blade of hanna. Quel’delar (personal favorite from 14-15 years ago).

Point being. This stuff is probably worthless and a waste of space to anyone else. But to me, it’s my time and my collectables I enjoy keeping on me.

Imgur

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No, you cannot replace such letters. We can see however that Blizz simply doesn’t give a damn. Blizz hid this for 5…5 weeks, never offered an apology, blamed lost data. They couldn’t say “we messed up” and own it. And here we are all these weeks later staring at Blizz complete, total lack of respect for it’s player base.

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I mean… I wouldn’t call keeping unique or special items that required a lot of effort or gold “hoarding”.

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The white knights of blizzard would call you a hoarder as they have called many in these posts about the lose of stuff from over 20 yrs nothing but hoarding to them…they complain and say your hoarding pixels…

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Yep, this situation kind of sucks but at the end of the day, it’s a video game. Its not a big deal at all. These are just pixels. Approaching this from a mature and rational perspective can be very helpful.

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I liked your post Sarabande. I logged on two days ago for a minute or two and then just logged off feeling terrible. I didn’t log on at all yesterday.

I also lost almost all of the items you mentioned. I have been struggling with what to do next, as in keep playing or quitting. Have you made a decision yet?

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Could I at least get returned what showed deposited in the guild bank in each tab log and not just… nothing!!!

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For now, I have unsubbed, which doesn’t mean much when my game-time won’t run out till next June! But it’s tough, thinking about it all.

What’s keeping me and has always kept me, is my community - mostly my guild. While we used to talk a lot of Vent, we’ve only occasionally talked on discord lately. Some of them have systems that can’t even run the game and discord at the same time. SO, most of our communication is through the game. There are people I’ve known since 2007, met them in the year after I first started playing. And along the way, almost every expansion, picked up people. There are even a few that I’ve met IRL.

We don’t recruit, but find people anyway (generally, people just asking if they can join the guild). It’s really casual - we raided for a short time at the end of Cata (but didn’t even have enough for full raid, so had to pug some). It’s small and close-knit, and it’s just . . . home. I don’t do much but they all say or imply that they feel at home there. We had our 10th anniversary years ago, where we had tons of fireworks, guild banners and did a slow parade around Trade District in SW on our Lion mounts. We got comments that they liked seeing guilds enjoying things together. And then, we had our 15th a few years ago. I had pre-planned when WoW had the 15th anniversary and bought a crap-ton of balloons!! We LITTERED SW with that. We got some trolls complaining about “who cares about your stupid guild?” and the mess we were making. And I’d been looking forward to picking up a bunch of balloons during WoW’s 20s, because I wanted to . . . want to? celebrate the 20th with my guild in a few years. I never imagined something like this fiasco would happen to make me think of the game this differently.

I almost quit a few times - once, before WoD, where a friend I had known since early TBC threatened to buy me the xpac if I didn’t. And once before at prepatch for . . .something, when they made some changes I didn’t much like, incl. not being able to read the chat very well (was a change they made to not being able to be in true full-screen). Guildies threw suggestions out on addons, /commands, whatever, to make my playing the game better and easier. My guildies come and go depending on what life throws at them. Some get too busy, some have obligations to meet and some may have financial situations that make it difficult to justify paying for a sub. And some take breaks because they don’t like some stuff about the game. But so many - at least the ones I’m pretty close to, have come back. And I know how it feels to have people I really like having around go away, whether permanently or even a long break. It takes a lot of joy out of game.

There is a part of me that KNOWS I should quit because Blizzard doesn’t deserve my business and I actually feel horrible giving a company like this any money because in doing so, I’m giving them consent to treat their customers (and workers, to be honest) like complete and utter crap. That’s not good for me, the entire WoW Community (even those that think our reaction is dumb) and just gamers in general, because other companies will see how much of “cost-cutting” measures they can do and still keep players. But I also have friends and guildies that I would miss so much if I left them behind. There have been times I wasn’t able to play (due to technical issues, etc.,) and trying to keep in touch via other means isn’t the same. Most of the feeling of community is conveyed through bright green letters. Thus the struggle here.

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Not being part of a guild, I am unaffected by this issue. However, I am aghast at the way Blizzard is handling this data loss. I wonder if some of those who say “it’s just pixels” would say the same thing if all of their toons got wiped by a bug. They may say that they would, but I am sure it would be different to many of them then, even though that, too, is “just pixels”.

It’s also astounding to me the lack of empathy some seem to hold for their fellow players, people just like them. I’m someone who always plays solo, but WoW is still an MMO, and my fellow players, whom I am always surrounded by, matter to me. The first day I made a toon and logged on to play, it was an interaction with a fellow player that first sold me on the magic of this game. Other players and their feelings matter. A lot of players being angry and hurt, and Blizzard’s reaction to it, matters to me. Even if I only ever cared about myself, it would matter because next time, it could be me on the receiving end of such callous customer service and poor communication.

I bought TWW and even paid for early access. I regret showing Blizzard that support in light of this. I cancelled my sub yesterday over this because it feels like it’s all I can do to show them that this isn’t acceptable, since it seems like voicing our grievances here is not something they care about. Blizzard cares about money. I wish I hadn’t given them so much recently.

Will I be back? Probably someday. I still love WoW. Eventually the bad taste this left in my mouth will subside, and I’ll return, but if I had been affected by the sort of losses people are talking about here, that would not be the case at all. It would be the end of the road for me.

To all of you affected, I am so sorry. To everyone else, I would suggest showing some kindness, even if you don’t “get” why people would be so upset.

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I have a good feel for where you’re at with this, I think, but coming from a different direction. If you don’t mind, I’d like to offer something.

You mentioned that you would miss your tribe if you were to leave. You find not only friendship there, but support, understanding, and they’re there to celebrate with as well as to share the bad times with. I think it’s pretty clear that they would miss you for the same reasons.

Sometimes the :poop: pit is where the need for human beings is the strongest. I think that if your presence in the game helps others positively, then I think that should mitigate (at least to a large part if not all) having to throw money into that pit in order to be there for people who both want and need you.

I don’t mean to pose this specific question to burden you, but rather something to add to what you’re already parsing: If you were to leave, what would the alternatives be for both you and for your tribe?

I’m sorry if this sounded awkwardly phrased; I’m not the most eloquent at times. :frowning:

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https://massivelyop.com/2024/09/26/massively-overthinking-do-you-expect-compensation-for-mmorpg-trainwrecks/

Found it, so linking it here.

Agreed this is a good read and talks about studios that have given compensation to their affected fans for much, much less than data loss. Really puts into perspective how ridiculous people sound that claim compensation is asking for too much.

If my funny little monster hunter mobile game has better customer care with bug compensation freebies, wow needs to step up and do better than incomplete restorations.

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Thank you for this. Like was said, what is “just pixels” to some people holds a different value for others. I don’t really raid or mythic+ or pvp anymore, but I do collect. I spent most of Dragonflight just exploring and doing world stuff, and stored all the mats and items I didn’t use or sell in my gbank, as I’ve done every xpac since their inception, because even though I don’t need the mat currently, I may need it in the future for something. And it felt rewarding opening my gbank and seeing how flush it was with items I’ve gathered over many years.

But even though I can move on from this and just refarm maybe 70% of the items in my gbank, the overarching issue is the consent we would be giving blizz and microsoft in just allowing our time to be disregarded so flagrantly. And all the players should be united in standing up for the quality and integrity of the game we enjoy in the face of these corporate entities.

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No, it’s well put, and been pondering these things as well and thank you for asking.

I’ve been looking around to see who might be best to take over if I do decide to leave. I took over after our previous guild leader (who is also a friend I met in game) took an especially long break. He’s come back now and then, but I believe due to health reasons, he hasn’t played since BfA. He’s got two sons that I’ve become really good friends, and they have toons in my guild (though they’ve always had toons in some of the top guilds on the server as well). Wondered if they would be good successors. I’ve tried to keep a certain spirit alive in our guild - that of making the place feel comfortable, homey, not creating a lot of obligations (except when I was nagging them to go fishing during Cata so we could get the Seafood Magnifique recipe for our guild. :smiley: ) And it’s not that I don’t trust them to run it, nor do I think I do anything all that special. BUT I do try do stuff like keeping up traditions like every toon that hits max level for that expansion gets a Delicious Chocolate Cake (been doing that since I was just an officer back in TBC when I first got that recipe). Or as a tailor/enchanter, using my professions to give free enchants and bags and such to the guild. And the issue also is, a lot of these Guildies DO take long breaks or play in a way where they focus on their progression, and so while they would try and mean well, due to their playstyles, not sure how much attention they’d give the guild.

And I’ve thought of what I would do as well. If I were to leave, I don’t see myself playing another MMO (but then, I didn’t see myself playing WoW either. Or playing with other people. Or joining a guild. The last bit, my guildies make fun of me occasionally). I have games on Steam, though mostly of the Comfy types. Backlog of streaming shows. Books that look interesting that I haven’t read. But whenever I’d hear a piece of WoW music on Pandora (and yes, I use Pandora) or see one of my WoW T-shirts (and especially one that one of my officers had gotten custom made for me for my birthday or something - with our guild tabard design on it :smiley:) or see something else reminds me, I know a part of my heart will hurt. (I’m a damn sap is what I am. :face_with_diagonal_mouth: )

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There needs to be SOME form of compensation. They need to 1) ADMIT they screwed up. And this admission needs to come from someone high up in the company, not just passed on to a blue to “relay the message”. They need to say that this is wrong, and say they have taken steps/changed processes/whatever to make sure something like this never happens again. And then they need to 2) Provide SOME sort of compensation to those affected. I’m not sure what form this compensation would take. I know that without logs items cannot just be restored based on “trust me, bro”, but they SHOULD be able to verify the fact that X guild lost items. Perhaps the compensation could be “proportional” to the approximate number of things that were lost. As I said, it would take a lot more thought to determine exactly what form compensation should take. But there needs to be SOMETHING.

Back in the day I would’ve expected a statement from Mike Morhaime over this. Obviously he’s long gone now. But we need a statement from, if not Johanna, at least Holly or someone high up in the WOW team.

And I’m saying this as someone that was barely affected…I mean I think I lost a stack of spirits of harmony, and some miscellaneous essences from Cataclysm and like maybe 3-4 from Dragonflight. No sentimental, valuable, or hard to replace items. I’ll even say that I don’t even require compensation for myself, for me the statement from someone high up admitting “we screwed up” would be enough.

If they can’t provide even this simple, basic level of customer service, I don’t know how much longer I’m going to stay. Right now I’m paid up until mid-January. I haven’t decided what I’m going to do going forward yet.

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