Guardians, are you having [FUN] in keys?

Classes Druid
101

Perhaps if you forget such “minor” thing as the core of the entire hero talent.
Improving lunar to be a 30s CD AoE increasing mastery by 30% Leech by 10% healing for about 5m+ and however much it converts from its damage since its arcane.

It also converts one of our main abilities into arcane, so they benefit from arcane heal.
To a minor extent, free rage from all the moonfire procs. Can never overlook those on pull.

You’d have to do content over LFR where mobs actually hurt to appreciate it.
That or rotation and or gear is poor and not really seeing the numbers.

Are you using it out of form? did you forget to equip half your gear?
Are you sure your guardian is lv 80?

Also, I think you forget mastery doesn’t only increase the health pool.

I am not sure what kind of content you are doing but even in low keys (and by that I mean higher than any you’ve done) the healing from Mastery, and Elune’s favored are up there. (yes, mastery proccing from arcane, from an arcane AoE that increases mastery)

This one takes the cake though. Keep guessing! Bound to not be entirely wrong sooner or later, broken clock yada yada :stuck_out_tongue:

102

So, didn’t try to jump in M+ yet… but what is the ‘safest’ bear build to go with? :thinking: One that allows most ‘mistakes’ (since I’m still in the learning curve).

103

Funny how you’re getting 5m+ heals from Lunar Beam and the top Druids with the best gear meaning the best increased damage/healing, are only getting 2.5m heals out of it.

I’ve already laid out the math based on the top parses, so you’re just flat out wrong. You’re getting about 2-3% heals per tick with everything going on.

Pulled from Squishvegan’s logs

You mentioned HP increase directly. And it’s 2.5m, still negligible when the average melee hit is 500k+ damage and you’re never just tanking a single mob at a time.

You have no idea how our healing works do you? Lol yes in overall healing, it’s up there. Each individual heal is extremely small, and most of it going into overhealing (50% for mastery and 40% for EC roughly).

You haven’t been right yet. And you don’t even do the content i do (which you deem low), nor even on Bear. You’re just making baseless claims which are very easily disproven.

Go play the game before you start making claims about things you know not of

2 Likes
104

Hm, similar to the one I’ve been using. Is Raze really worth/necessary? From what I read around, most of your rage will be spent on Ironfurs and FRs.

105

Absolutely not. I missed switching the point out of Raze and putting it into Ursocs Guidance.

Spend rage on IF and it lowers the CD of Incarn giving you more “god mode” windows. Or if youd rather, put the point into Improved Survival Instincts for a second charge giving you an extra “on use” defensive

106

2.5 Sounds in line with very low ilvl (unless self proclaimed top druid but even for a LFR druid seems low)

I double checked and without the best gear available its still healing for 3-5m for its duration varying with crits, plus the 1.5m - 3m from mastery. That’s without counting Elune’s Favored / boundless Moonlight (they double dip) healing since it depends on the number of targets.

On the 5 cleave dummies, it easily procced and spread moonfires by itself so by the time it ended it healed for 8-10m (couldn’t see overheals)

This is without attacking, so we exclude the 10% heals from leech on top of that (again, depends on many things)

Clearly… Mission failed, you’ll get 'em next time.

If we healed a thousand times in a second for 5k, you’d claim the heal is small or negligible because 5k is a small number individually.

Same goes for quoting the ladder or parses, if you focus on a singular thing without knowing how to interpret it, or missing the rest of the picture it can mislead an opinion, especially without any experience to back it.

That’s the only thing you’re right on. I don’t find it fun to run keys I completed long ago.

107

Your heals from proccing moonfires aren’t healing for more than Lunar Beam is lol. Again, this goes back to you not understanding how the healing comes in or where it’s coming from.

Read em and weep boys

But we’re not is the thing.

Speaking from experience are we? Seeing as you have no idea what you’re talking about.

Unless you’re popping everything all at once, you’re not getting a lot of healing. EC’s healing will not save you. It’s great for maintenance healing in between heals when you’re safe. But it’ll do nothing for you if you’re in the danger zone, nor will it save you if your healer goes down.

Long ago because it’s been 3-4 years:

The fact remains, you haven’t played bear in any meaningful content in TWW and have no idea what you’re talking about. 3+ million healing from procc’ing Moonfires on 5 target dummies :rofl:

1 Like
108

It’s amazing how almost everything you’ve said has quite literally been wrong. I think it’s an accomplishment to be this wrong on so many things.

You keep calling him an LFR hero and yet can’t grasp he’s referencing one of the world’s best druid’s logs as his point of reference. Whether Grizzle does nothing above LFR is irrelevant to the point and literal proof he provided.

1 Like
109

I can see how people might get confused quoting information they don’t really put effort in reading.

A quick glance at the link shows that “overheal” is not selected and the average from lunar (alone) is around 4.6m. That’s without adding mastery, EF, Boundless or any globals used during the window.

No one claimed such thing. On most attempts the average was 7m (no other abilities used)
Lunar proccing Moonfires, which proc Fury of Elune, which procs more moonfires.

When combined with the beefed up mastery and some crits, its not that hard to get a fair amount of healing from the automatic MF / FoE procs, 200-400k a pop back to back+ mastery.

Yeah, feels like its been that long since I did TWW 10s for prog… you’ll get there running with 635s I am sure.

I guess so, got bored very quickly rushing for content first week, AotC, t11 delves, keys… at some point checking out mythic…
My interest dropped fast in TWW but still… I have cleared higher content long ago than people who claim to know better. Who sit here miss interpreting data from those playing in a different environment at different level of content. Meanwhile they have yet to even dip their toes on things the vast majority cleared several weeks if not months ago.

I did my share of pushing against the meta, doing content bear was not good at, while glory was stripped because other tanks had it easy.
I have loved bear for so many expansions, through so many iterations, good and bad, pushed all sort of content, both PVP and PVE.
I never rerolled, even when they butchered our talents, or crippled the spec and left it lacking for the rest of the expansion.

But TWW reached a point where its just not satisfying to play anymore, or the situations in which it is are few and far between / in content lower that I consider capable of.

110

So outside the arguing:

Bear is fun! It’s actually in a really good place too. Pally shot up from nowhere because at very high keys it has some really specific tools, including it’s DPS, that give it a really important edge. It also enables disc priest, which becomes important for the rest of the group to survive some of the damage output to an extent.

But outside the meta of 15+ keys Druid was actually hot on the heels of warrior as a tank.

So if some part of your “is this fun” is are we competitive? The answer is yes. Are we meta? Not really, but we aren’t that far behind any of the other tanks. Tank balance is actually pretty good right now.

What are you most likely to enjoy and not enjoy… well, things you’d enjoy:

  • We are simple.
  • We have plenty of DRs to rotate through that make us pretty tanky
  • When we get IF stacks up, we are pretty resistant to physical damage
  • We still have our “every 2min we are pretty unkillable for 30s” thing going for us

Things you might not enjoy:

  • Our baseline mitigation on pull is terrible. If you try to pull with no DR up on pull you WILL explode. No healer will be able to save you.
  • Keeping IF stacks up is “harder” than the active mitigation on other tanks because it layers instead of extends. (Shield block on warriors, for instance, is pretty much just “hit it when it’s up” you don’t even spend much time thinking about it)
  • Magic tank busters will ruin you, as is our legacy
  • Our class tree sucks

That’s about it off the top of my head. Overall, the spec is fun. It’s simple. It works well. We don’t have “tricks” like war/paly/DK do where some cool ability like spell warding of spell reflect is going to make the fight suddenly waaaaay easier. And our AoE DPS is pretty bad. But we can definitely do the job.

I’m only motivated to push 10s, because I just want the gear and portals. But I pretty comfortable 2/3 star the 10s and think I could probably do 12s with some practice.

1 Like
111

Ah yes, do go on and tell us about how you’re clearing content before it’s even released in game lol

I mean, it actually is that hard to get that kind of healing from MF and FoE. That means a single tick of MF and FoE alone is going to have to account for about 1.5m damage. The chances of that happening are very low. Squish’s max MF hit was 677k, max hit of FoE was 510k, together that’s 1.187m, and Elunes Favored only heals 25% of damage. So your potential max heal off of that is <300k. Maaaaybe 315k with mastery. And this isn’t happening on a normal basis. That’s if the stars align. Which they rarely do.

You’re still looking at 6-7% healing per tick (with all overhealing involved which is stupid to add), with everything going all at once. Which again isn’t going to save you nor be considered “extra defensive measures” that you like to claim.

You’re just wrong. But go ahead and tell us about how you’re out there getting AoTC for Midnight expansion already

1 Like
112

Yeah, that’s the thing. It gets much worse from 10 > 12s you really don’t wanna go in without rage pooled or IFs up. Blowing big DRs on it doesn’t feel good but like you said you WILL explode otherwise.

I only feel this on specific fights in ST, perhaps when they have a heavy tank buster you want your stacks to align with since rage is limited.
On AoE pulls, with the standard build, you overflow with resources and there is no thought to the active mitigation other than dumping rage into the 16th stack because you are rage capping every second and can’t really use it on anything else.

Meanwhile two seconds prior to that you were bending backwards trying not to die due to not having rage to pull with. The contrast is crazy.

I agree with most of that being fun simple and working up to a point in content.
I do miss our “tricks” a lot, like healing the party or having our iconic HP pool.
Our AoE dps is not really “bad”… if we didn’t have to sacrifice certain key talents for survival, without them yeah it is pretty lackluster. And room for choice is cut short pretty early.

What I find worth noting is that people who seem to have fun with bear have all stopped at 10s, or have not yet attempted 12s / higher, not that it is some insane barrier but those little things that punish the spec or factors that go against it start mattering.

You definitely could! and unlike when I say it to trolls, I actually mean it. Keep it up.