This is where most EVERYONE calls it quits. Because rewards stop.
90% of Prot Warriors stop at 10s
88% of Prot Paladins stop at 10s
92% of Guardian Druids stop at 10s
94% of BDKs stop at 10s
88% of Assassination Rogues (meta dps spec) stop at 10s. Is it because (by your claims) theyre not as good as other specs to push higher?
Your entire list is just bad players being bad. And youre faulting Guardian Druids for that. A single Thunder Clap isnt going to hold aggro over someone who decides to open up with their big CDs. A single Avengers Shield wont either. Yet because Thrash wont do it either, its clearly a fault of Guardian druids and no other tanks has that problems??
All the problems you listed are problems other tanks deal with too.
If that were the case, then most prot pallies would stop at 10 too, lets ask the 40-50k of them pushing past if they care about the rewards?
Yes. 100% because it lacks the tools to compensate for it. The same players with a different tank would have a higher success on the exact same pull because of it. (and its been like this for some time)
Expecting perfect play from every single person on every single random pug would be silly, but its an issue when it becomes a requirement.
Yes. Because we are forced into a corner in terms of talent choices, the damage build does not have the same aggro issues, in fact does A LOT of damage in AoE but its not really viable beyond vault stomps.
At this point they should delete rend, make savagery baseline and change or remove the way thrash stacks (5k ticks are pointless)
It is the case. MOST of them do not care. There being more past that point is simply due to the number of paladins, thatās it.
Again, nearly 90% of all m+ stops around the 2650io mark regardless of how good they are. There being more of a specific class is simply due to the number of folks playing them.
1% of chinese people vs 1% of americans: 14million vs 3million
Still 1%
I just explained how this is a faulty argument.
1 Thrash canāt hold aggro on a new pack against everyone dropping CDs
1 Thunder Clap canāt hold aggro on a new pack against everyone dropping CDs
1 Avengerās Shield canāt hold aggro on a new pack against everyone dropping CDs
All tanks require 2-3 globals to fully hold a group once they reach them, no different than Guardian.
This isnāt the issueā¦
Rend isnāt there for āstacking damageāā¦Really starting to question if you even do play a Guardian at this point. Thrash stacking has never been about the damage.
Multi proccing thrash can, especially when it chain casts three times, which we donāt run because we canāt afford it.
Savagery helps with both range and stronger first hit, but we also donāt run because we need survival.
There are many talents that could help, more arcane damage for EC, raze, the whole Vulnerable flesh, Vicious Cycle and T&C combo (too expensive)
The damage build nearly keeps up with DPS in big AoE pulls when cds are up, but again, canāt afford it.
(Almost forgot to mention, if DotC actually worked, Ravage should have deleted aggro issues)
Numerical tuning tampered with to make healers have to heal the tank more leading to bears having to spend every single point in the max survival, meaning we have no points to spend on a lot of things (like damage) causes the most of the aggro issues.
From that, you also deal with DPS who are used to aā¦ different damage profile from the tank, pulling easier than expected.
Then I guess you never heard about parsing.
It is for damage as much it is for DR, which part of that you care the most depends on the content you are doing.
The point was about the BASE stacks of thrash, excluding the talent(s).
The starting point is so weak that it compounds into the aggro issues on pull, it serves little purpose as is.
Also the stacking nature + having so many modifiers makes it range from near useless to near OP so the tuning is stuck on the low end. Would trade stacks for a higher āon useā impact and bleed.
Because the āchanceā of the proc doesnāt outweigh the strength of other talents.
Range isnāt an issue. And again, 6% overall damage from all sources > increased Thrash damage
Yes, every talent would help every build for every class. Weāre limited in our points for that exact reason (as is true with all classes)
Almost like the higher you go, staying alive is more pertinent than damage. Almost like how Yoda changes talents from his 10s to his 15s.
Yet Scintillating Moonlight isnāt taken. Neither is improved Survival Instincts, or Survival of the Fittest, Pulverize in any instance. All these unanswered survival talents not being taken but yet Fury of Nature always gets 2 points put into it simply for damage. Odd. Could have moved those points to get Tooth and Claw and have a 12% damage reduction taken.
The starting point really isnāt an issue when youāve got Moonfire to pull with, getting a few ticks of damage (higher than that of Thrash) going before the mob ever reaches you.
Itās stuck on the low end because itās one of the few uncapped target abilities.
There is so much wrong with all of those statements that I canāt be bothered to cover them all, especially those questioning builds and talents that someone with so little experience would never understand.
On top of that, the ones Iāve been referencing I got from one of the best players across many expansions when running a key with them, it performs in wonderfully in a way you wouldnāt expect, but by all means people can keep guessing and questioning their choices as if they knew better from their LFR perspective!
Iām having fun playing Guardian Druid in M+ even though I have a 633 Warrior that could perform better I guess? Iām able to clear 10s and drive the pace for the group while surviving. Would I like to do more DPS? Sure. Itās still fun being able to range pull with Moonfire to round up packs and begin mitigating/stabilizing.
I play the Guardian Druid more to tank than my Warrior because itās fun to me.
I think fundamentally tanks and healers should be part of the damage output role but with additional responsibility of mitigating damage/healing damage in comparison to DPS roles which should be damage output/crowd control/stops. Everyone contributing tangible damage with their side roles would help get more tanks and healers out there queueing in general I feel.
Itās just a glaring remnant of the fact that bear has been a butchered spec since midway through legion. Ironfur was one of two defensives we could spend rage on. Ironfur was for physical, and then we had a magic defense(30% I think?). It WAS probably too strong, and really needed to be changed into something scaling. But instead of fix it, they nerfed bear into oblivion.
I canāt even remember when they deleted mastery scaling for us, but itās been a few expansions now. Bears were scaling too well at end of expansions, so they eradicated mastery to snuff out that unique aspect of them. Only thing that makes them viable at this point are the cooldowns. Baseline hands off the keyboard(or not enough rage) and I think the only tank naturally squishier than us is monk.
I havent played WoW on anything more than a very, very casual level since MoP. I returned at the end of DF and started playing a Druid. Iāve been playing almost exclusively Guardian
and I am having a wonderful time!
The class rotation isnt overwhelming and has options for mostly everything. I feel like I always have a defensive option and great survivability. Im really looking forward into pushing M+ and getting back into the raiding scene.
I may not be at the upper echelon of iLvl or accomplishments or have the most experience, but I am really enjoying my time as a Guardian druid and plan to stick with it.
Ravage feels great and yes, itās powerful for holding agro. However I like that I can fill with trash and it keeps ticking up the layers of bleed that help me hold packs and raise my baseline damage. I think they go well together.
DoC could be a great hero class (and is the more fun one imho) but it just doesnāt do the numbers of EC. Hoping future tuning brings them more in alignment. And hoping Bliz continues to experiment with bleed damage. Seems itās always been an interesting mechanic that has never seen itās full potential.
Mark of Ursol!
Yes, I remember nearly trivializing things like that chain mechanic on GulāDaniel, something about how you could stack CDs on top made bear take no magic damage (at least for specific raid mechanics)
But like you said, instead of tuning it, they entirely removed it, which left bear feeling awkward for the rest of the expansion (and even to this day)
Having more HP than other tanks was THE bear thing, made the spec unique, taking the big hits and bouncing back with regen or self heals, now we take the big hits but with the same base HP, less about healing or regenerating and more about preventing a one shot.
Nice! bear can be pretty fun, especially DotC, thereās something about pressing incarn and ravaging through entire packs. Maybe a bit lacking in design butā¦ its oddly satisfying.
But the tale seems to end abruptly past those set of keys. It reminds me of challenge modes, sneeze and things one shot. Magic damage and pre pull being the worst, followed by aggro issue with geared DPS.
I play PVP too I even used to take my bear into pvp for those who love dealing with tanks!
It shows the problems with the baseline bear survival, without being able to get shields from ravage, thrash or raze, the spec offers very little beyond the core kit to survive.
Not to mention, raze conflicts with Ravage, which makes it for a very clunky rotation, unlike how it used to work in DF.
On the other hand, EC has lunars, synergy with a lot of arcane talents which in turn help survival, extra HP, leech on a very short CD that cycles itself using abilities, etc.
Personally. I wanted to play a BEAR druid, a wild BEAST tearing into opponentsā¦ not a boomy in disguise using sparkles and pretty lights like some oversized furry fairy.
Offers the same core kit as EC, it just doesnāt put out the DPS as EC. EC really doesnāt offer much in the way of āincreased defensivesā from the base kit. Most of itās healing is trickle healing with the majority of it going into over-healing.
It really doesnāt. Ravage replaces Raze when available. Thatās it. Thereās no conflict lol just how Ravage replaces Maul.
DPS
Synergy, yes. Extra survival? No. DoTC has synergy with the physical side of the tree and the shield leans in to more survival.
Negligible. Adds 1.5m health. Less than the shield provided by UF.
Also negligible.
Most healing from EC is about 2-3% a tick. And itās not all at the same time. So itās not like youāre constantly healing for 10% a tick.
Then do it. Bear is perfectly fine and viable in the range youāre able to play at.
The only thing DoTC could really use is perhaps an unnerfing to Ursocs Fury Shield amount. Move it from 25% to 40%
I even used to take my bear into pvp for those who love dealing with tanks!