Guardian squishiness problem

Classes Druid
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TLDR: I feel like a paper origami bear. Magic damage eats my health, I have less health than other tanks, and less defensives other than my long CD’s. How do you spec/gear/azerite trait yourself so you take as little damage as possible?

Hey, so I’m just wondering if other Guardian tanks are having the same problem I am.

I typically only do mythics on my characters. I do some random BG, and other casual content, but I don’t raid. So this is a discussion about low key Mythic plus runs. (2-6)

I find that my bear is the most squishy tank I have. I have one of every other tank, and they can all soak damage better than my bear can.

Warrior’s have fun intuitive abilities that mitigate damage, high armor, decent health, and even have a lot of defensive CD’s. On top of that they have a few abilities/talents that let them reduce the amount of magic damage coming in.

Monks have the stagger mechanic which is broken, DK’s, Pallies, and DH all have great heals on top of decent armor (DH Demon Armor puts his armor above my druids base armor with 1 ironfur for 9 seconds) and decent health.

But my Druid just doesn’t have what it takes. I feel I have no answer to magic damage other than my long CD abilities (which isn’t an answer if they’re not ready for the next pull) and my heal which has a long CD compared to other tanks abilities.

My Ironfur, even though you can stack it, doesn’t really seem to add all that much mitigation. I’ll go into a pull and do decently well, but I’ll still lose health significantly faster than the other tanks.

I remember Druid tanks used to always be the tank with the health. That was our niche. We had more health than the other tanks, and that was our defense. We could simply take more damage because we had more health to give.

That being said, I started stacking mastery to give myself as much health as I can. But even at 384 I only have 300K health. My DH who is 385 has 310K health.

If I swapped out all my stats for haste/crit I would lose a lot of health and be even squishier.

How do you guys get around being a paper bear? What do you do in mythics to avoid magic damage? How do you spec/gear/azerite trait yourself so you take as little damage as possible? I just feel like I’m such a burden to my healer, even though I’m using my Ironfur all the time, and always have at least 2 stacks up, and always move out of stuff on the ground.

I just wish Blizz would allow us to use the Resto Affinity’s rejuvenation, and Swiftmend while in bear form. That would solve a lot of problems I think. That way we could apply a decent HoT to ourselves the way DK’s and DH have healing, and then use a larger heal when we need it like pallies do.

Edit: I know the inevitable “Just mark the casters so your dps kills them first” comment is coming, but 95% of the time, I’m running mythics with a pug, and you can’t get a pug to target anything. I always mark in every instance I’m in, but that doesn’t mean people will switch targets. There’s no controlling the group when the group doesn’t care about the tank’s survivability. There’s no loyalty to me, so why do they care if I take more damage than I otherwise could. As long as I have aggro they don’t care.

Edit #2: You may say "Go to Wowhead/Icy-veins/Noxxic, there’s a guide there. But all three websites give differing opinions on talents, and what the best priority is. Guides are one persons opinion on how they play the class, so they’re subjective to change from site to site.

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Might be a gear/ ilvl issue, my ilvl 400 bear has between 400K-430K health depending on azerite and weapon procs. I personally don’t feel squishy unless I’m doing King’s Rest, I usually have a rough time in there due to the magic damage. I do think we need help from Blizzard to deal with magic damage.

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Every tank but paladin and bdk are weak to magic.

That’s your gear. The only tank with similar/more hp than bear is vdh, and bdk is not far, but still is, behind.

You read a guide.

Warrior has the second lowest health pool, higher only than monks.

They most certainly do not. At least not if you’re playing them properly.

And is only 30% effective against magic.

The only of these tanks that has “great self heals” is bdk. Vdh is second, but still a good chunk behind bdk. Paladin is nowhere near either in self healing capability.

Bdk has very low armor. Paladin only has decent armor during SotR, which is nowhere near 100% uptime. Vdh has extremely low armor outside Spikes, and has even lower uptime than paladin does.

Your master acts as an effective DR unless you have no one healing you. In that case, however, every tank but warrior is very rapidly dead.

You have two charges of FR, two charges of SI, Barkskin, and you can self heal. Bear is not strong against magic damage. Neither is warrior, monk, or vdh. The only tank that is strong against magic is paladin. Bdk is simply capable.

You’re 384.

You’re 384.

Why would you swap your gear to crit. If you’re doing m+, you want haste+vers.

Have you not read a single guide?

Literally no one says this. Noxxic has never put out a single accurate guide. I mean that quite literally. They have. Never. Had an accurate guide.

Icyveins and wowhead have the same author, so no. They do not.

No. The guides on wowhead and icyveins are written by the Theorycrafters in Dreamgrove. They are not a composition of “opinions”.

Turns out, there might be a reason you’re struggling so much. And based off what I’m reading, it’s not the spec.

I’ll give you a head-start. You’re so freaking out about magic damage, despite between 60-80% of a dungeon’s damage being physical? Sure. Brambles, Ursol’s Vortex, Typhoon, GG, Survival of the Fittest. Stop stacking mastery, switch to vers.

You only want one layered mane. Stacking it is almost never the optimal choice. Stop using Gorey Regeneration. Stop using Strength in Numbers. Stop using Shimmering Haven. More Twisted Claws. More Wild fleshrending. If you really want to be defensive, run triple TC, one LM, a Waking Dream, and one MI.

If you’re eating a large amount of magic damage, you know hitting Ironfur does nothing, right. Spend rage on maul, heal yourself with swiftmend-rejuv.

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It’d be wonderful if Guardians could cast Swiftmend/Rejuv in Bear form.

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And DH and Monk

Exactly, DH and DK’s have just as much if not more.

If you read the end of the post you’d see why I said guides don’t really work.

That’s why I said decent, not best.

Still more than the bears and warriors.

DK’s and DH have incredible healing capabilities. Pallies have Light of the protector, as well as Flash of Light. Both are on demand heals that have a lower CD than the bear heal. Not to mention they have lay on hands. Long CD, sure, but it’s still a heal that can save their life. My 24% health (with mastery) isn’t anywhere near that level.

Yes, FR has 2 charges, but it’s a long CD compared to a lot of other abilities tanks have. I mentioned that before. Same with SI, and jumping out of bear form to heal is suicide. It’s not like I can use my heals while in bear form, and the CD put on leaving form forces me to stay in caster form way too long to make “self healing” functional.

And DH are quite good against magic users. They have utility and healing to deal with them.

Your point? I know you’re trying to be cool saying "Well you’re just shi+, with shi+ gear. Get better gear and you’ll be better. But how does that help me? It doesn’t. So help me get better for the content I’m doing. Yes, I’m 384, but at 384 I’m struggling. So help me as a 384… Saying “Get better gear” isn’t helping me at 384.

I know you’re just trying to tear me down saying that it’s a ME issue, and that I suck so I should get better gear and learn how to play, but that’s not helpful. That doesn’t help anyone do anything. Hence why you’re posting on your L20 troll.

If you don’t actually have anything helpful to say other than tearing down my questions and calling me shi+ then we don’t really have a need for you here.

This over everything. I think this would solve a lot of our problems.

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I love how I break down all your problems, clarify your confusions, point out where you’re wrong, and you dismiss all of it.

Your issues are your own fault.

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I wouldn’t respond to Drez by the way, unless you’re prepared for a marathon. :wink:

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You’re right, and I’m not. I’m just going to ignore him. He’s clearly here just to try to rile me up and talk shi+

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He has incorrect talents. Focusing on the wrong stats. Using bad azerite traits. Making incorrect statements about other tanks.

So what, am I supposed to condense the correct information into a bite-sized amount?

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Sometimes it’s not what you say but how you say it, but do what you like.

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You are using incorrect talents, traits, and focusing on the wrong stats. You are making incorrect and false statements about other tanks. You clearly lack experience. You scoff at and ridicule guides made by players who are objectively better than both me and you

Literally what.

Oh come off it. If the information is correct, and you asked for the information, how it is delivered should be a simple pill to swallow.

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I think you’re getting precisely the responses you’re looking for. :wink:

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As far as I’m aware there’s only one talent that I use that other guides tell me I should switch, and that’s Guardian of Elune for Earthwarden. That being said, I prefer the extra time on Ironfur because it allows for better overlap. It’s a personal game play preference over the damage reduction from Earthwarden.

My stats are focusing on mastery right now. That’s what every guide, as well as yourself have said to do.

And my Azerite traits are being worked on. Yes, I have too many Layered Mane’s, and too many Gory Regenerations, and not enough Twisted claws, but I’m working on that. The gear comes as it comes.

Aside from the minor differences in Azerite traits, telling someone that they’re crap doesn’t help the person. I’m working with what I currently have, and am asking the questions on how I can improve what I have to work with.

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Well Drez is right about incorrect talents, idk about Azerite since Kahna is in resto gear, but I’d swap out Guardian of Elune for Earthwarden, and SotF for Galactic Guardian. Maybe also consider using Ursol’s Vortex over Wild Charge and Typhoon. Mighty Bash is probably fine too, but I personally like Typhoon when combined with Vortex.

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I was playing around with this yesterday. I used to use Galactic Guardian, but when I switched to Soul, I didn’t really see much of a change in rage generation, so I just stuck with the one that was less work.

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SotF probably is fine, might even give it a try. I’m not sure on Guardian of Elune though. I usually see other bears use Survival of the Fittest or Earthwarden.

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I love Typhoon, but I personally found that losing charge is a huge hit on my mobility. I only spec Vortex for certain affixes, but ultimately it’s about your playstyle and what you like best. (Assuming you just play for fun and you’re not doing keys over 20.)

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A workaround for mobility if not using Wild Charge is to go Feral Aff for the 15% move speed increase, but Vortex is a very good choice for dungeons.

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“I prefer to play this way. Hey is anyone else finding guardian extremely weak/squishy?”

Try switching this

“I play my way, elitist nyah”

Mate.

https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/guardian-druid-pve-tank-stat-priority
https://www.wowhead.com/guardian-druid-stat-priority-guide
???

I guarantee you could have a better trait setup with your current gear. I would bet fifty quid.

“This is wrong, try this. That’s wrong, replace it. Aim for these. Stop stacking that. Check out the guides (written using math and theorycrafting+testing, no opinions or feelings)”

You responded with; calling me a troll. Insulting me. Claiming I insulted you. arguing with me over commonly accepted facts.

Screw it. Ask the experts. https://discord.gg/yTJrmX.

Don’t worry, I’ve been banned from DG for years.

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Be mad at drez all you want, he is correct jn this context.

From your own words it feels like iron fur stacks arent doing all that much, just take earthwarden.

Ursols vortex is a short cd method of making space from mobs. Which you can easily place down. Run away a few steps. And use a swiftmend and rejuv then go back to bear form.

Verse is the only stat that helps mitigate magic damage, so you need more verse.

Stacking haste lowers so many timers, and that is why haste is taken. You can use more abilities in less time, so you generate more rage, so you can keep iron fur up at 2 stacks most of the time. Thrash can happen more often, which if you ised earthwarden, means more reduction.

You can also max out rend and tear just a little bit faster.

Im with drex on this one. The advice has been laid out for you, but you seem to refuse it.

Finally, this is not a shot at you, but much of the magic damage in dungeons is avoidable damage. Are you taking damage that you could avoid. Your obvious response to this is likely “no of course not”, but are you actually sure?

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