I don’t normally play Guardian so I haven’t spec’d since the patch dropped. It looks like this has a 2s CD during incarn now instead of no CD, is that true or did I miss something?
If that’s how it is now, I’m not really sure that was a nerf that needed to happen, but ok… rip my bear bretheren 
Yip they charge berserk to reduce the CD of trash to 50%
They want you to go trash, raze, trash mangle
Thanks for confirming 
For some reason they thought nerfing the worst tank was needed. Now you have to go raze if you want a semi functioning incarn.
I think a lot of changes (for all classes) have been directly related to tier sets.
Mangle —> Raze (maul) works a lot better with tier set than Thrash spam any way. Yes I know it doesn’t feel good and not everyone takes Raze, but I think that’s the devs mindset
Haha yea, that’s what gave me a chuckle. Like, not at Guardian’s expense (<3 you guys), but like, “Oh wow, this is a thing hey?”
I’m not a Guardian main so this is maybe just a preference thing, but having a spam rotation of one button is more fun than having to spam alternating between two buttons. Like, an actual rotation with complexity would be even more interesting, but if you’ve just gotta tap two buttons over and over, I’d rather just do it with one. In fact, I suspect the real solution would be to just /castsequence macro them and be back to one button I guess.
Still… it’s a bummer because it doesn’t seem like they don’t know what they’re doing with Guardian. I hope you guys get some love!
Well it’s still rage dependent. So you could thrash mangle thrash mangle raze raze thrash mangle raze tooth and and claw proc thrash, etc etc
So i have to go into multiple talents just to have a proper functioning cd. I need to go into 5 up to even 9 talents to have a cd that does relevant dmg.
One of these talents even lowers my main single target dmging ability by almost half.
Raze needs to be buffed to do the same dmg as maul, incarn needs to be reverted or reduced to at most to 3 talents instead of 5.
Functions Just fine at its base. More talents, more goodies.
That’s how AoE abilities work. Not meant to do the same damage in a single target scenario.
Raze does more than Maul when used correctly. It’s a choice if choosing AoE vs ST
100000%
It’s a slight defensive nerf in that in large packs we can’t keep earth warden up. But generally we should always have been doing mangles with thrashes anyway, according to the big brains in dreamgrove.
So it’s a nerf to an incorrect playstyle that will apparently get more people to play correctly…
Although I’ll be honest, I liked that I had a safer, more brainless option for when I wanted to use the CD and still focus on other stuff rather than my gore procs
More talents is fine if they function well on their own. Berserk does not function well at all while also taking up 5 talents, no other tank deals with that kind of nonsense.
The aoe bit, no other tank loses aoe directly because of a talent capstone talent that replaces their main spender. Oh and the fact we also have to talent into maul but also lose maul through going raze is idiotic design aswell.
It should do the same dmg as maul or be moved into the second talent row. This is a capstone talent, look at other tank capstones, they dont do this kind of nonsense trade off junk.
Raze should do maul dmg, be added into the base kit, or be a choice node with maul at the top of our tree.