Group Loot in Raids

[Kiwì-dentarg (Kiwì)]

Dear OP,
I am a fan of personal loot. What I have seen in the raid:
3 of the same pieces drop, only one person can need on them
Loot dropping that no one in the group can use
People fighting over loot drops
3 weeks no loot for a spec dropping
Did I mention people fighting and bad feelings (even though the loot rules are very fair?)

[Bralsong-kelthuzad]

@Kaivax

We have a hotfix coming to the game later this week. With this hotfix, we will have:

• Fixed some situations where players could win Need rolls on duplicate items in a single roll session when it should not have been possible.

This has already been working as intended for most items, but should now include items such as Tier Tokens and weapons.

Additionally, we’ve got some updates to loot distribution coming in 10.0.5–

• Fixed an issue where, in some rare cases, players would get less loot than they should have on certain Raid sizes.
• Fixed an issue where players could unconditionally roll Need on Set Tokens. The system will now check if the player owns the Token or the Set Piece itself at equal or greater power.
• Players can no longer roll Need on any Profession recipe that they have already learned.
• Players can no longer unconditionally roll Need on 1H weapons (or 2H for a Warrior in Fury loot spec).

For that last one, in 10.0.5, the system will now thoroughly identify if you can dual-wield the weapon in question, based on your loot spec. If you can, and you already have two versions of it at least as powerful as the item being rolled for, you can’t Need the item.

For the record,

How many weeks did it take for you to address this and acknowledge it publicly?

[Copelin-whisperwind]

Please just go back to personal loot.
Tired of all the drama the current system causes.

[Bralsong-kelthuzad]

They don’t design anything for you.

This is an Echo/Liquid Game.

Take it and tell them you love it.

[Razortail-proudmoore]

@Sarama-firetree

@Razortail-proudmoore

Other problem with group loot in LFR is you can NEVER queue for multiple wings of the raid.

When you kill the last boss in one wing, your queue immediately pops for the next wing. But if you accept the queue, you are skipping loot from the last boss of the first wing because inevitably someone is either taking their time or has gone AFK. There’s always a long wait for the final loot to be distributed.

How are people still saying this stuff? It’s flat out untrue and was disproven weeks ago. If you roll at the last boss and win you’ll get your item in the mail. You don’t need to stay in the raid.

So many complaints from people who don’t even understand how the system works…

Thank you for clarifying. I did not understand how the system works. It’s certainly not clear that that is how it works.

In any event, I’m not quite sure what the point of LFR is other than to charge up Tuesday’s vault. I’ve killed something like 22 LFR bosses so far across two characters. Loot I’ve won: zero.

[Argorwal-ysera (Argorwal)]

One of the biggest frustration points is just not enough loot drops in raids.

Right now it’s 1 per 5, and tier tokens are 1 per 10.

What if tier tokens were in addition to the 1 per 5 loot ratio instead of included in it?

20 man kills on tier bosses drop 2 tier and 4 other items (6 drops total) instead of 2 tier and 2 drops (4 drops total).

[Zapkaboom-azuresong]

What they should have done was add a transmog button, if you hit it and win, it generates a cosmetic only that gives you the tmog, but doesnt take away a real item drop.

[Faraya-stormrage (Faraya)]

What’s interesting is all of this headache could have been avoided if it had just been personal loot like it has been for years now. I know you guys make the argument that we will end up getting more gear with group loot but overall numerically this is just absolutely wrong.

From my experience and being the huge altoholic that I am, I’ve always been able to reliably gear up all my alts fairly quickly with personal loot. It’s strange, it’s like I could rely on it to be geared up by X time. But now it feels absolutely dreadful just attempting to get any gear with group loot.

I really wish you guys would understand how much better personal loot is for this type of content rather than trying to stick to your guns on this one.

[Magnarok-amanthul (Magnarok)]

@Kaivax

Additionally, we’ve got some updates to loot distribution coming in 10.0.5–

Just bring back personal loot for LFR. It isn’t the kind of environment that lends itself to reasonable negotiations about loot, either between players or for individuals. I’m not going to sit there and consider whether to need/greed on an item like one might in a guild group. I don’t have to care about the group getting stronger overall. So I therefore will only consider the loot roll from the most selfish point of view. And that just kind of sucks for the overall mood of the LFR experience. You’re putting the onus on me to be selfish. I shouldn’t be feeling bad about winning loot.

[Atanae-kargath (Atanae)]

At the end of the day, players should have been given a choice. There are a fair number of us who were fine with personal loot. And if given the option, our group would have started with PL and then flipped to Group Loot later on. As it is, because of these bugs, we cannot trust the system , so our current rules are: Need if it’s an upgrade and you can’t/don’t Need it, pass and the Raid Lead will do open rolls for any item that is passed on. We are just extremely lucky we have built a lot of good will as far as fair loot distribution, and our team is pretty mature when it comes to loot.

Blizzard literally made our lives infinitely more burdensome, when we just could have had our old “PL, and whisper the RL if you want to offer the item for roll."

There is no one-size-fits-all solution to loot distribution. Aside from Blizzard-managed random groups (LFG/LFR) which should be PL, all player managed groups should have the option to choose which loot distribution method works for them, whether it’s personal loot, group loot or master looter.

[Gàldin-frostmourne]

Thank you for clearing this up

[Helene-cairne]

None of which would be needed in the first place if they did the sensible, non-stupid thing and just left personal loot in random content alone.

[Cäpslöck-proudmoore]

You can effectively have PL in that content. Getting from PL to GL is an order of operation swap, and asking the player if they want something instead of assuming yes.

If anything, This new bugfixed GL is BETTER than PL at ensuring that the people who the item is an upgrade for actually get the items.

[Sinmare-drakthul]

You had a higher chance at leaving that raid with something than you do now.

[Cannis-whisperwind (Cannis)]

I still havent gotten any loot from any boss for my main but thank god for the vault thingy at least. >.>

[Darièlle-proudmoore]

Eh, let’s separate out things that aren’t actually connected.

Things like “removed trading restrictions”, “priority for those who don’t already have tier sets”, or “lower priority for those who already have the item” are not tied to Need/Greed, and could be fairly easily implemented in Personal loot.

[Cäpslöck-proudmoore]

And things like “normalize the droprate of rings/necks vs regular armor items”, would requires a complete re-write of how PL works.

[Sarama-firetree]

@Razortail-proudmoore

I’m not quite sure what the point of LFR is other than to charge up Tuesday’s vault. I’ve killed something like 22 LFR bosses so far across two characters. Loot I’ve won: zero.

That stinks. I usually have that kind of luck but DF has been good to me, I’m getting at least one item per run. Knocks furiously on wood

[Sarama-firetree]

@Zapkaboom-azuresong

add a transmog button

Or just make it so if you trade an item you don’t lose the mog unlock.

[Chawana-altar-of-storms (Chawana)]

Personal loot still feels better, but these are good changes.