Not on alpha, so can’t post this here but seeing the loss of our Greater Blessings is not welcome, while Kings was a fairly secondary buff, Wisdom was extremely useful for arenas, particularly against mana burn dh (which is still in the game). Additionally very viable talents like Vengance Aura and Hammer of Reckoning are based around these, and we’re completely fair non oppressive talents. Since it seems blizzard will be keeping the same pvp talent system I would like them to additionally add 1-2 more honor talent slots (since we will be losing conflict and strife and most people enjoyed the ability to select more talents with that essence taken). Also if you aren’t going to add Divine Hammers into the normal talents, make it a pvp talent, I’d like to see Rets way more viable in rbgs 
it’s really bad that I’m the highest ret NA at 2100 :))
I believe they’ll just change them into ‘‘whenever you or an ally is taking damage’’.
Hopefully lot of our pvp talents get deleted and changed into new, much needed tools, like a direct gap closer, something to help us stay toe-to-toe with our opponents, tools to help us against magic damage, another cc option as pvp talents would be nice aswell.
Ret PvP talents that should be deleted and replaced completely are;
-Cleansing Light. I’ve never seen anyone pick this one. It’s completely useless and should be replaced.
-Luminescence. Another talent i’ve never used or seen any ret uses. It doesn’t do much at all. Should be replaced.
-Divine Punisher. We understand what it’s trying to do as a talent to push out more damage. But we’re already good damage wise and it’s also really restrictive when comparing it with Lawbringer.
Ret PvP talent that should recieve modifications
-Jurisdiction. Should be merged with Hammer of Justice baseline. We’re already immensively hurt with the wheelchair mobility, and a lot of times I can’t do my set up go immediately only because the healer is playing max range or start moving in the opposite direction as me right as he sees me running to him, which just end up being super infuriating as a player. Why I can’t use my burst when I want, because I can’t stun the enemy healer to do my burst and other specs can just do theirs without any drawbacks because they have 30yards paralysis or cc effects on top of having better mobility than me?
-Blessing of Sanctuary. This one should be baseline. It would have extremely rare and niche uses in PvE content and in Mythic+ it would create a disparency between bad and good rets, because they would use this to help their team without being a game breaking ability. It would also make Ret a more desired spec to do PvP with knowing we would always have this ability available rather than needing to spec into it and losing on another way too much important PvP talents and make some breathing room.
-Law and Order or Unbound Freedom. One of these trully need to become baseline if you decide to not give us more mobility options in talents or baseline. Divine Steed alone is the worst mobility spell in the game and is made fun off by basically everyone playing the game. It’s such a joke and an insult to everyone playing Ret. It should suppress roots and snares upon use like every other mobility spell in the game. Is Ret only allowed to be designed with 20 years behind every other classes? Only because of 3.0.1 Wrath? Are we trashed on purpose since then? By also having the worst mobility in the game, we also have our only slow with 30 SECONDS COOLDOWN? Another spit in the face for the spec. So having either baseline would be a really welcoming change and would open another PvP talent slot for new tools.
-Ultimate Retribution. How is this not fixed yet? When you gain the Avenging Wrath effect from this effect, it overrides your current Avenging Wrath of Crusade to the talent’s effect. It should add its duration to the existing buff instead. Because right now it’s unplayable. You use your 25sec Avenging Wrath, get the talent proc and your 25sec Avenging Wrath becomes 6seconds.
And yeah they should make 4 pvp talents across the board for everyone. 3 is just way too limited and every spec is locked into 2 pvp talents most of the time and only juggle with the 3rd one. Having 2 pvp talents to juggle with would be a much needed change.
Cleansing light was actually used in the first season of BfA as a really troll talent to use in rbgs. Since triple assas was meta for awhile you literally stood in teamfight and just spammed the ability off cd. Needs to go though now.
Luminescence I feel like is actually good we just need the other pvp talent slot to make it worthwhile over other talents.
Ult retribution is a fun talent but the bug needs to be fixed. Very troll to get a brez off on like ToK against teams with multi r1s on it.
I’ve been thinking of how Wisdom and Kings could be repurposed for the design of Blessings being strong cooldowns rather than buffs.
Wisdom could easily fill the role Innervate used to, now that Innervate nullifies mana costs instead or granting mana. A 3min CD ability that grants much increased mana recovery over 10 seconds, maybe roughly equal to how much current wisdom would regen over 3 minutes. So around 18~20% total mana gained over 10 seconds with a 3min CD.
Kings I suppose could just cannibalize Cata’s Sacred Shield. Placing a beefy absorb on someone that increases the paladin’s heals on them for as long as it lasts. Could use it on someone low on health before a WoG or a SH FoL. Or something like that. I’m sure someone smarter could adjust that to make it work or turn it into a useful cooldown that’s loyal to the origins of the spells.
As for the PvP talents, they will probably work from Auras instead. They will probably change the wording to say “when you or allies within your auras”.
Yeah I completely forgot about auras, because that’s exactly what they are; boring, useless piece of trash. Can’t believe people wanted that instead of seals.
Also since both Heart of the Crusader and Retribution passive are being deleted, does this mean we’ll be the only spec in the game without baseline passive?
Yeah I don’t mind those changes. But I still think current design is completely ok and not really toxic to the meta/game
Yeah I would take Seals instead if I had to chose, so many more possibilities and better gameplay. But Auras are easier for them to implement with no thought and say they care about class fantasy feedback and call it a day.
Also, Pursuit of Justice should be a passive.
You are right, it’s not. If we talk about toxic just look at the new Ret Aura… But I’m just looking at the ongoing trend in their design and it looks like they don’t want us to bring those buffs anymore and for Blessings to be utility cooldowns, so what I offered was based on that. I rather keep Wisdom and Kings but I don’t think they will let that happen.
Ya I’d be equally surprised if they just flat gave them back. And ya ret passive is extremely toxic, and should not be in the game especially if they balance around it
Ret paladins:
-‘‘Delete Retribution passive you balance us with it.’’
Ret Paladin when new tier release:
High damage during progression cause people keep dying.
Blizzard:
Nerf Ret
Also Blizzard:
-‘‘We DoNt BaLaNcE aRoUnD iT’’
Also Also Blizzard:
Delete Retribution passive, slap it into Retribution Aura whilst being immensively criticized.
Gotta keep ret in check Kappa
I swear I wish I had the drugs the ret designer is doing rn.
Is there even one?
Ret has been flying in the twisting nether for all the latest alpha builds without any changes except some tuning number on flash of light and hammer of wrath. We’d better get some good changes like enhance, or some good pvp talents like other classes have gotten soon or later hopefully.
It’s fine all the really dumb YouTube people who don’t main ret say our spec is perfectly fine (if I see that bellular video one more time I’m going to vomit, like he said the dh momentum build shouldn’t be in the game)
Yeah, no popular youtuber or streamer play ret. So we get absolutely no highlights of our true problems. Even seems no main ret at all get alpha. Give mythics main ret and top 0.1% ret alpha access so we can get real feedback.
Look at our thread in the alpha forum. 68 posts?
And at least 10 of them is about 2 people arguing about Shield of the righteousness and the spell highlight on the spellbook on it that we don’t give a single crap about.
and BLIZZARD RESPOND TO THIS specifically from feedback in the whole thread.
Im so done.
Apparently Vanguards has alpha but has no desire to log onto it since he can’t test pvp really outside of duels. Savix has it and has made some videos on it, bout it
Ion: Hey, you, have you played a ret paladin before?
Dev: I’ve main one for ten years.
Ion: Useless. How about you, by the coffee machine, do you play a ret paladin?
Intern: Paladin?
Ion: Perfect.
The guy who rerolled dh for 8.3…he’s clueless about Ret. Anyways I’m still waiting to see if they finally do real changes to ret before posting anything on the alpha forum. Otherwise I’ll end up posting the same stuff over and over.
Dude doesn’t have a clue about dh, just babied by the face roll demonic spec dh, as opposed to the semi brain momentum spec
The whole thing is in need of an overhaul, most of what ret has is just leftovers from legion.
I’ve taken it from time to time, though only in Naz when there’s a big fight happing and there’s quite a few DKs. But even then its not really that useful.
With up coming changes to Ret this talents usefulness will bd made better. With Word of Glory returning baseline with no CD, Divine Punisher will be able to give holy power from range for an extra heal. A heal that will also work to getting an instant cast Flash of Light from Selfless Healer. So while Lawbringer just does extra damage, Divine Punisher will give both extra damage and survivability.
Just to add Ret should gain access to Steed of Glory, Hallowed Ground and Guarded by the Light.
Agreed
I don’t see divine punisher ever being viable over lawbringer, Lawbringer does way too much cleave damage and single target and generates us a lot of pressure in the long run
I don’t think the cleave even matters all that much and the single target difference is minimal. But that’s not my point, my point is come Shadowlands Divine Punisher will become more useful than it currently is.