I’d be fine w/ infusions dropping too to be clear.
I’m not trying to destroy raiding, I just know that tier being available to m+ players doesn’t hurt raiding at all.
Clarify, please. Also, I don’t think anyone’s arguing for it to be out week 1. People just wanted it out earlier than week 6-8. It was literally the same concept and problem last expansion, too, with S4 and them bringing it out like almost 2 months or so after the raid came out.
Like, people don’t mind waiting, but they don’t need to wait that incredibly long considering it’s capped at 1 per week anyways so yeah.
I actually don’t know how many infusions drop per each heroic or mythic boss or anything about the raiding side of it. I just know from keys, I get 12 or so chaos and 1 infusion thing so I gotta do 10 keys to get 1 focus for crafting gear, which is fine. I don’t know the conversion rate though for raid.
It depends honestly, as it kinda does and doesn’t. So, mythic+ in general hurts raiding because the vault actually gives better than heroic raid gear, which for heroic raiding guilds it kills the incentive to raid a bit because “we can just smash out keys and get better gear for less effort” less just meaning requiring less people to play with and like, spaced out over time. Raiding isn’t in 30 minute sessions, it’s a long time investment. Dungeons are an easy time investment because 20-40 minutes here and there, maybe an hour, good to go.
Pugging for raids is basically like that, but guild raiding is hours sessions.
Lemme stop u right here, because the super rare stuff from raid is enough reason to continue raiding on it’s own.
Tier again, isn’t going to stop people from raiding. Just the people who only wanted tier from raid.
The thing is… after a few weeks (and we’re there, now) everybody can get tier. The one thing raiding has going for it disappears.
However:
- You still have to run M+ for large numbers of primal infusions - and that’s not changing.
- M+ still rewards more loot per-person and per-hour (when factoring in prog) - and that’s not changing.
- M+ still gives you both gear and infusions for failing - and that’s not changing.
- M+ gives far easier access to better loot in great vault every week than raiding at a comparable difficulty gives - and that’s not changing, either.
Now, if the arrival of the catalyst also meant that:
- Bosses dropped 5 infusions.
and - Bosses dropped 3 times as much gear.
and - Bosses dropped rewards even if you didn’t kill them. (Which is SO DUMB that M+ does this!
)
and - The ilvl of all raid rewards went up by 6.
Then we’d be seeing something more equitable.
But as it is, the only thing raiding has going for it goes away, and the game shifts entirely to being 100% about M+.
It’s like when Jack traded away his mom’s cow. Except this bag of beans isn’t magical.
Well, as it stands now, both systems are reasonably balanced and supplement the other.
Buffing one would necessitate buffing the other, and I don’t see you arguing for the compensation raid gear buffs anywhere near as hard.
I’ll answer both at the same time: 1/boss/week.
Looking at brewas or my main, from only raiding we’d be able to have 1 crafted 418. The only group of people who can generate enough raiding infusions to have sparks be the limiting factor are people who have averaged 5/8M every week for the entire season (which is basically only RWF participants at this point).
Even the world first guilds can’t farm enough infusions per week from the raid to make an item.
M+ meanwhile gives infinite quantities of infusions.
It’s absurd.
They are basically the only ones who can. If your guild killed M Keurig week 1, you can probably manage it. else, run some keys.
Do you know how many people raid for anything more than gear? I’ve found that every guild I’ve ever pugged into, every raid I’ve ever joined, it’s 100% always been gear, not “to see the bosses” and def not for anything outside of “I want gear.”
My experience with pugging and has been the case for WoD, Legion, BFA, SL, and this expansion I’ve not really pugged anything raid wise at all, I’ve just been chillin with the guild for 99% of it.
Nonetheless, the guilds I would pug into, the groups I would pug into, and in the past expansions the guilds I was in were all about the gear, nothing more.
Absolutely, yeah.
Well, I mean it’s not dumb. Mythic+ is on a timer, you complete the dungeon regardless. It doesn’t drop gear if you don’t complete the dungeon, just like how raiding it doesn’t matter how you kill the bosses, only that you kill them.
yes and people will continue to do so because the items that are from the raid are really good. regardless if the catalyst is in the game or not.
Every progression guild.
If people want gear, raiding is just about the worst way to go about it.
Ok well, imho, if you you get a drop in any type of loot and it is not what you are aiming for then it doesn’t count lol. There are different specs that require different stats. Just because it’s your armor class doesn’t mean its your spec class.
I full on agree with you. I’m just saying they don’t do it for other cool stuff, they do it for gear for most of the playerbase. Like, I don’t even know of many people walking around in any crafted pieces besides myself and like 2 others. Most of the people I’ve met and seen have had raid gear, dungeon gear or pvp pieces, no crafted.
You’re correct, though, and the incentive raiding has over keys, for the most part, is usually higher/better weapons and trinkets. That’s it, the rest of the gear is better from dungeons because most of it is actually better optimized with stats and a much bigger variety of stats over raid loot.
The Dinar thing in S4 was pretty nice, though.
Maybe in better groups that aren’t casual, I guess? I mean, I don’t see it. Like, there’s so few players who raid anymore and out of those, it’s so much of a bigger scene for you to run into with pugging with people NOT knowing how to play the game, what to do, etc. over people who do understand the ins and outs of the game.
Again, my experience in pugging and this expansion I haven’t really pugged. Like this time around the very first time this toon seen the raid was last night. The rest of the time was on my Druid and those were for the guild, nothing more. Previous expansions I pugged 99% of the time and just pugged like 200 times a week playing the game, this time I slacked though and got distracted with how awesome the profession stuff is so I slacked off in the raiding department.
If pug raids are hoping to get loot… boy are they going to be disappointed.
I mean, you’re going to get vault, and that’s about it.
I’m playing at 2200cr all season and notice everyone have 2/4 set when I never got one sadly.
Have you… done the raid?
Not everyone is pver and you can get tier sets in pvp vaults just like you can get them in pve vaults stop acting ignorant how many times does the guy gotta say it?. His Rng was bad I know plenty of people without a single tier that have opened that vault every week.
Disable it in pvp, a lot of those tiers r huge boosts. People aren’t impatient, they’re fed up with people having unfair advantages because they had better rng, you pvers r so close minded.
Thanks to mobile gaming’s insta gratification models now adopted by everyone else.
Imagine being on the losing side of a soccer team but still get the gold trophy.
You new age people really have no patience or understanding that you work for what you want.
Im glad ive learmed to live with what i do or dont get.
Its called life. Deal with it sheep.