"Good" warlocks go to bastion?

Lore Story Forum
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So now that it seems that the afterlife you go to is determined more by your actions and mind set, over what kind of magic you use, does this leave open the possibility of warlocks, rogues, maybe even certain death knights who have a sense of “duty” to their people or some organization that isnt evil, may be able to get into Bastion?

What I mean by this is once we fix the afterlife and everyone stops going to the maw. I know player characters can choose any covenant like Bastion or Maldraxxus, but I mean more lore wise, the average warlock or death knight.

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Well, it depends I would say.

Rogues usually just main, kill and torture people. It’s pretty bad but not too different from warriors at times.

Death Knights take it one step further and raise people into horrifying slavery and suffering, but usually for a limited time.

Warlocks on the other hand have a tendency to play with and even sacrificing people’s immortal souls, condemning them to an eternal hell many times worse than death.

I can see Rogues, maybe even Death Knights getting a pass if they are particularly conscious people… but Warlocks who are beyond the novitiate stage are probably damned by their own actions, even if made for a good cause.

And this is, of course; not taking into the account that Necromancers and especially Warlocks deal with powers that tend to be corrupting and influence both body and soul.

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If they didnt kill or do anything bad yeah they would go to bastion, but remember bastion isnt really the good people people place, its for people who want to keep serving. Theres more realms than the ones that where shown.

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I think this is really important to keep in mind so it’s best not to try and twist things to fit the just the ones we know about.

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To be fair, I don’t read the OP as suggesting that all, but rather some. So, is it possible that some would? And I think that is a fair question, even if most end up in some other realm that we have never seen.

So, could some? Probably.

In the case of DKs I point to the opening dialogue: “A hero, that is what you once were.” There are likely going to be DKs that still hold that at their core. They will probably take more time to unburden their souls than others. They do have a lot of darkness to loss. But, yah, I could see it.

Rogues are probably few in number. Possible, but in general you don’t think of service, duty, discipline, at such in the kind of people that become rogues. There are likely exceptions. I think ones like Shaw would probably fit. So, I could see some being there.

Warlocks though, are at best a stretch to see. While warlocks can be good, remember why they become warlocks instead of mages. Being a warlock is a shortcut to power. They seek quick power. And it is not a disciplined approach. The warlock approach is not self sacrificing in nature. It is not something that really aligns with the nature described for Bastion. I can’t think of a notable one that would even kind of fit. It would take a remarkable character for sure.

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I admit a warlock would be a strange fit in Bastion. But a self sacrificing Warlock would not be unheard of, a good person using warlock powers to save their people would be a great sacrifice in out of self. Kind of like Demon Hunters. Also Warlock abilities can cause a lot of self sacrifice, its been removed now but warlocks used to have a spell called life tap, I know I know game mechanic, but still, it forces you to sacrifice some of your life force for power.

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Being that the average warlock or death knight is generally not of a “good” persuasion they either go to Gothic Land or Scourge Land, whatever they are called, because that’s what they are closest attuned to.

Very few people are actually “Good” it’s a very hard attitude to maintain and easy to fall from. I’d like to think I’d qualify, but I know myself better than that.

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I had a friend who RP’d a Blood Elf Warlock who would’ve gone to Bastion. The character studied demonology per the Magistry’s directions (this was back in BC), and although he didn’t particularly like it, he did so out of a sense of duty and service to Quel’Thalas. He used Healthstones as Fel Crystals for people who needed a source of magic when the addiction got too strong, but diluted their potency so people didn’t become dependent on them. He summoned demons and used them as sacrificial pawns/disposable soldiers to keep other Sin’dorei alive.

The character’s sense of duty to Quel’Thalas, and desire to serve despite that particular calling to service being undesirable, would probably have led that character to an afterlife in Bastion.

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This is RP, not ingame mechanics.

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That is kind of the key to warlocks. They seek power. And, keep in mind the original idea for life tap. The warlock sacrificed some of their life for mana, power. Then they stole life from others to replace what they sacrificed.

Oh, I am not debating that there would be those using their powers for good. But, the class is all about grabbing quick power. It just doesn’t seem like the mentality required for a person to become a warlock would be compatible with Bastion. They might ultimately balance out to being a good person. But, I just can’t see a warlock going there.

Not to put to fine a point on it, but that is a huge stretch to make that work with lore. And it would make that warlock a huge exception to the rule. And that is fine for some RP fun. But, I would argue it doesn’t really work for the conversation here because it is so left field of what warlocks are characterized as.

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‘‘The kyrians are eternal beings who draw only the most accomplished, principled, and pure into their ranks.’’

I don’t see pain-inflicting Death Knights, life/soul-stealing Warlocks being principled, or pure at all.

Rogues? I don’t know, they could be righteous rogues, but considering all the dirty tactics and tricks they learn. I don’t really see them fitting what the Kyrians seek.

In the skull-and-bone laboratories of Maldraxxus, strength is rewarded, and weakness cast aside. Necromancers experiment on the souls of the ambitious and contentious, reforming only the greatest into undead soldiers who protect the Shadowlands

Now, they do fit into Maldraxxus, which are not exactly evil people. But more on the line of those classes you mentioned.

It’s a toss between that and Revendreth to be honest.

The venthyr have a good thing going. They lord over Revendreth’s castles and ceaseless twilight while arrogant souls are delivered to their tables. The harvesters’ otherworldly punishments strip the pride from their thralls, sparing them an even worse fate: eternal torment in the Maw.

But souls thus drained can’t just leave Revendreth for a better place. They have years of penance to slog through while they reflect on the precarity of their afterlives.

While the magic you use doesn’t affect the place you go, in the world of the living, generally the magic you use is defined by the type of person you are.

To be honest I am not too trustful of the roleplaying community, not trying to sound mean, so excuse if any offense is taken.

But they twist the Lore into what they see fit since they generally go by the ‘‘Lore is not a bible, is a guidebook’’ and you end up with things like a Void Elf Holy Priest or a Lightforged Shadow Priest.

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Using sentient souls as fuel for spells is usually interpreted as the most evil thing you can do in most settings. Like, immediate alignment change for anyone in your party who doesn’t try to stop you if they aren’t evil, do not collect $200.

Warlocks were textbook evil in the RPG, but since that’s gone, there really isn’t an in-universe “guide” for what constitutes good or evil outside of clearly biased characters in the game. This complicates things.

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For your average one the answer is likely no for a warlock. Being a warlock who values duty, service, and order in your life is more an exception than an average.

Death Knight is a harder question since this boils down to the argument a lot of us get into over Slyvanas of how much an undead’s living life determines where they belong, and should the actions you take under the limitations of undeath weigh as much on where you belong. Personally I lean to average undead and death knight types, you likely still belong in the realm you were going to before you were raised, but likely need a pit stop in a purgatory realm like Revendreth to be fixed first.

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You’d nave to be a pretty terrible Warlock to end up in Bastion.

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The mindsets of a warlock or DK would probably point someone to Maldraxxus, or Revendreth if they were naughty about it.

Bastion is for those who conducted themselves with a level of discipline and piety in life that would warrant it. “The ends justify the means” is not quite along those lines, seeing as how the mortal example given is Uther the Lightbringer.

Living beings have wished to become something greater than themselves since time immemorial. Souls deemed noble enough can prove themselves in Bastion, land of pristine spires and crystalline skies, where those who surpass their trials earn the honor of ascension to a higher calling beside the Archon, first among the winged kyrians.

The kyrians are eternal beings who draw only the most accomplished, principled, and pure into their ranks.
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To be fair, what I was getting at was that it was more of a cultural thing, especially around BC. A lot of Blood Elf RP’ers were RP’ing that strong sense of duty to Quel’Thalas and their fellow Sin’dorei, above all else, even morality. I think one could argue any culture that places a strong emphasis on the state/people over the individual would be one that could produce a fair number of souls for Bastion, regardless of class.

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Cool. Doesn’t really mean that is what is reflected in the game. I have nothing against RPing. However, you have to remember that it is really common for RPers to RP as exceptions. It is likely a combination of them trying to fit what they want to do in and wanting to feel special and unique. It is all fine. But, RPers are not a good source of lore.

In the end, the idea of a warlock is largely about chaos, quick grab for power and such. You can envision an exception to the rule, but it would be an exception. And there are no current NPCs that would fit it. Nor is there lore that suggests that state of mind among warlocks. Making any warlock fitting it a huge oddball.

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I’d have to explore Lock lore more deeply but I don’t think all of them inherently have to be evil.

A lot of the magic in WoW achieve basically the same effect. A Priest can call down a pillar of blessed flame upon the wicked, a Druid can invoke An’She to scorch her foes with the sun, and a Shaman can commune with the elements to incinerate his enemy. Yet the Warlock is worse for throwing a chaos bolt at someone? If I’m being burnt to death I really don’t think I’d care how ethically sourced the fire was.

Some magics are inherently meaner than others. Locks for example can’t invoke their powers to heal others much. But I think magic like any tool is inherently neutral. A Scarlet Zealot who uses the Light to murder innocence is probably going to a worse place than a Blood Mage who invoked the ruinous powers to defend his homeland from the Scourge.

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I don’t think they are either. There are certainly good one. But, Bastion is not a question of good vs bad. There are other aspects of it. Good warlocks are like to simply go to a different one. Necrolords for example. Or some other one we don’t yet know about.

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True. But I thought it was all about being dutiful. Warlocks in a lot of cultures are regarded, fairly, as deranged criminals or necessary evils begrudgingly allowed to combat worse threats.

But I could see it simply being considered another totally valid avenue of research for more magically liberal societies like the Sin’Dorei and Nightborne. Kael’Thas wound up in Gothic Gargoyle Land for good reason but I could see other Blood Mages who didn’t go insane winding up in Swolkin Heaven.