Good riddance to Titanforging

As we enter the final week of 8.2 and the final week of Titanforging, I’d like to say good riddance and I hope it doesn’t return. At least in its current form.

Reward structures in a game like World of Warcraft should make sense. Do higher difficulty content, get higher level rewards. Simple.

There’s a number of reasons for this:

  • As a player, I should understand what I need to do to get my next upgrade.
  • Progressively higher rewards from progressively more difficult content leads to more enjoyable, fair and rewarding outcomes. Players operating in a system like this can aspire to do harder content to get better rewards which lead to win moments.
  • It’s simple, makes sense and so, as players, we don’t feel let down by a system which is out of our control. We should have agency over the content we choose to do and therefore the level of rewards we receive.

At the moment these reward structures are shot.

The other day, I was on an alt helping a guildy through an 8 M+ and he got a 450 trinket with a socket out of it. wtf?

My main who has run many, many, many more mythic + keys of higher difficulty (16-18+) each week hasn’t got a 450 trinket. The best I’ve got is a 440 with no socket.

How does this make sense? All I can say is thank goodness this type of reward is gone. The changes to M+ loot going up to M+15 is also a nice change imo.

There are similar issues with the titan residuum vendor. Most DPS classes are chasing 1 specific trait and most of the time there is a BIS piece, a few middle-of-the-pack options and then some really garbage options.

As a player I need to sit there wondering:

  1. Do I pay 40000 (about 2 - 3 weeks of doing m+ content) and possibly get the worst possible piece?
  2. or do I save for the full 200000 (10 weeks) and buy the specific piece I need?

The outcome of this is that some players will be lucky and get the BIS or the next best pieces from gambling in as little as 9 weeks. Other players will receive the worst pieces gamble after gamble which will set them back for weeks. This then leads to distrust in the system, a likely decision to start saving the 200000 for 10 weeks and gimping their character while they do that.

Players doing higher-level content don’t have a higher chance of getting the better piece, it’s just pure luck. Yes, we get more titan residuum each week but it’s a negligible amount. If you do a 17 you get 5k more than someone who did a 10. It will take 8 weeks to get 40k more, enough to gamble one more time.

Why is this necessary?

You’ve created a system which leaves players anguishing over whether they should gamble or save.

I’m not at all an advocate for removing RNG from loot systems. Of course, there needs to be some level of chance otherwise content would dry up quickly, but there’s got to be a middle ground here.

These loot systems don’t reward effort, they have players aspiring to be lucky, not be good at the game.

And so it’s easy to feel helpless and unmotivated when the loot/reward systems don’t seem fair and don’t seem to operate in a way that makes sense.

I’m happy to see the back of Titanforging. Corruption appears to be a better system at rewarding players participating in difficult content. Having said that, there still remains loot systems in the game which don’t reward effort, they reward luck.

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Because the main who has done many more M+ at higher levels will have higher gear, overall, than the 1 casual that got really lucky with 1 piece.

Also - we’re all on the same side. The “heroes” of this game now have a better equipped player to help kill bad guys with.

That being said - I despise the RNG in this game in regards to gear. I would much rather have a more straight-forward way of getting gear and upgrades.

But given that the game is riddled with layers of RNG - I don’t mind a fellow player getting lucky and getting a really good piece of loot.

To me the issue is at the foundation of the RNG - not the titanforging specifically.

Corruption does the same thing - it just doesn’t have a raw ilvl attached to it. But for the right player/class/spec - a solid corruption effect will likely be just as good as a titanforged item from today’s system.

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So, this entire post is a rant about someone else getting something nice and thats unacceptable? Sounds about right.

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I mean, some of the corruption affixes are worth something like +50 ilvls. We’re trading randomized power bloat for more randomized power bloat.

It’s a bit more interesting than titanforging but does little to really address the issue. That guy you ran through a +8 might get his bis corruption the first time he goes into a dungeon and you could grind weeks or months for it.

I’m curious to see what they do in Shadowlands though.

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Forging can’t go away soon enough

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the only forging i liked was REforging

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If you start somewhere in the middle, thanks in no small part to other people or your main. The newest catchup gear is not out yet. Catchup being for alts of established players, what becomes of players who are getting started? Do they have access to catch up or will they just spend the rest of the expansion so undergeared that you wouldn’t accept them in any content?

Full disclosure: because of changes none of my characters (all arrived to 120 during Korrak) will make any attempt to move into end content, and certainly not that new zone where flying is cursed, or corrupted, or something.

Enjoy playing with your small circle of friends and watching it grow smaller.

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I like how this seems to be the only real argument for titanforging… “just let people have nice things!”. Nevermind how it’s terrible from a simple game design standpoint as the OP has laid out. Dunno why people defend this RNG schlock no one has control over.

A controlled method of upgrading gear would be pretty sweet.

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It’s not about whether they got something nice or not, it’s about whether the deserved that. Imagine if you were at work and you found out your coworker who does the same job as you is getting 35% more for no discernible reason. You work just as hard as them, you both started working at the same time, so why does he get paid more than you? When you ask him about it, all he says is “oh they just decided to pay me this much, no idea why”

The whole ‘disliking other people having nice things’ argument is so tired and worn out, and completely misses the point.

Also see: McForging

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No not at all. As @Ðiesël said, we’re on the same side. I don’t care that he got a 450 his 450 will help me and the rest of the guild through content. I used this as just 1 example of the disparity in loot rewarded compared to time and effort.

As someone who has played this whole season running M+s it’s not encouraging to see someone get a 450 in next to no time in less difficult content.

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You say no, but then you basically say yes…

Someone got one titan-forge and you deem that unacceptable because you think they don’t deserve it.

There isn’t a disparity. Mythic raiding, 15 keys or higher and pvp at above 2.2k cr reward the most consistent high level gear. One tf trinket does not invalidate the loot system. It just tilts people that feel every piece of loot belongs to them.

The arguments for forging are simple ones. It soft-nerfs content and keeps content relevant for longer.

3-5 additional gear levels due to forges plus a few sockets per group member and your group is able to kill things it would not have in the past.

Getting nicer gear feels better than nerfing bosses into the ground.

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Sorted by adding a currency that all bosses can drop which can then be used to upgrade your gear a bit. Or something along those lines. Yes it means individuals won’t get a completely random big upgrade at once, but rather the whole raid team gets incrementally stronger for further bosses if they can’t clear them. It doesn’t need to be completely RNG.

And I may add that I believe sockets should just be baseline anyway.

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Best items in the game should be made by trade skills and become account bound when complete.

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Normal dungeons will be dropping higher ilvl gear. So will heroics, so will m0s, so will world quests. New and returning players will be able to jump into end game content as fast as they always have.

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The part I wanted to chime in on the most that I think was understated or perhaps under acknowledged by the rest of the replies was what you brought up about titan residuum, which they kind of corrected but in a fairly miserable way. The azerite pieces they are adding to the new raid have the most desirable traits for a good chunk of specs and it’ll be worth it more than ever to do your weekly lockouts. It’s not going to help at all to the m+ players who don’t raid, which was why I said it was miserable. I fully intend to do more raiding next tier so hopefully I’ll be able to get reasonably decent 460 pieces (while I’d like to do mythic next tier I’m trying to be realistic and just assume the tier I’ll be completing consistently will be heroic) while I’m saving up for my 475 vendor pieces without gambling or using any for catchup at all. This is looking to be the best way to handle this. TR is so far my least favorite system of this expansion considering how much of an impact not having the right traits do for your character.

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It feels terrible to someone whose self-worth is based on being the best and getting visibly rewarded for doing that, while people who are not the best should suffer yet are expected to continue to pay for a game that does not provide them with any opportunity to improve themselves.

“Oh, they could just become mythic raiders tomorrow! It just took me one day!” No it didn’t.

You make it sound like you lay awake at night worrying that somewhere in the game there was one person who may or may not have gotten something they didn’t deserve. And even if they didn’t get that thing, the fact that the possibility even existed means the game is broken and you cannot possibly have fun.

Except that not only does it come up in every one of these threads, but you used it yourself.

Hey, I understand you need to think of yourself as a good person. And you understand that it bothers you if anyone gets something they don’t deserve. If that person has really bad gear aside from that one nice thing, it makes you seem jealous of what little success they have had.

But if you can claim that the problem is that the game’s broken, then you bear no responsibility for acting like a jealous jerk.

You should be happy that casuals got a hard nerf to their gear in the next patch, right? You don’t want them playing the game, and if they can’t get gear a lot of them will quit and no longer sully your pixels.

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You seem upset, you ok dude?

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It annoys me that people think it’s the natural order of things to remove gear from casuals and greatly upgrade gear for those who already have the best gear in the game, because it makes them feel bad knowing that somewhere one casual got 5 ilvls they didn’t deserve on a single piece of gear.

Since you posted this, it’s pretty clear you’re one of those people.

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Seems you failed to read all of it then.

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What do you mean? im a casual just like you. :rofl:

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