Actually from someone who raided in Vanilla,
MC drops 2-5 BoE epics + 2-5 BoE blues + 20 boss drops
+Ragneros 4 epics and 4 high end BoE blues + Materials for crafted epics items
(Fire resist gear ) and 200 dark iron ores (Epic crafted dark iron weapons)
So a guild would get a whole lot more then just Boss loot.
also after 12 months or so everything is on FARM, thats when you
get to dis-enchant most drops, because your all geared up, waiting
for the unlucky drops or that last Tier piece to drop, the extra shards
are used for weapon enchants.
I had a great time playing all through vanilla. I only ever got one epic from raids. I was proud of my blues and my sterling record as a dungeon healer.10/29/2018 12:22 PMPosted by AgonyyGood lucking getting gear when raid bosses only drop 2 epics
24 pieces each week, 96 minimum each month. That's 2,4 pieces average each month for a player in a raid of 40. And that's just for MC. That's exactly how the game should be, epics should be RARE, we don't need to be showered with epics like retail.
The joy of getting one damn rare item will be more than retail where you get those 335 "epics" from the daily headless horseman just for the sake of being epic.
Hell I even liked being full BLUE, it was an achievement being full blue, it was good gear.
The joy of getting one damn rare item will be more than retail where you get those 335 "epics" from the daily headless horseman just for the sake of being epic.
Hell I even liked being full BLUE, it was an achievement being full blue, it was good gear.
10/29/2018 12:41 PMPosted by AxêllYea you are understating it a lot. Alliance could get Shaman and horde could get Pally items. I remember multiple items getting DE'ed every raid cause it would be something that either no one needed or everyone had, or we didn't even have that class in the raid like the man above said.
Unless I am mistaken, the possibility of shaman gear dropping for alliance groups and paladin gear dropping for horde groups only happened after patch 2.0, the TBC pre-patch, was implemented.
For the vast majority of vanilla, shaman gear dropped only in horde raids and paladin gear dropped only in alliance raids.
With TBC adding alliance shaman and horde paladins, the gear for those two classes was added to the loot tables for their respective new factions with the TBC pre-patch, 2.0.
Since patch 2.0 should not be part of Classic, I would expect that shaman and paladin gear will once again be restricted to their respective factions.
Sounds good to me. When can we get started???
I remember always getting shaman items and we never had any shamans in the group.
Out of the assumed 24-30 drops, most people will at most see 5-10 items their character can actually use and/or would considered a true upgrade. And that assumes players have not already started the itemization process and whittled their “upgrade” list to just one or two specific drops. This further assumes that each time such an item drops, your character will have no competition for it.10/29/2018 12:54 PMPosted by Dealloc2 drops per boss is also excluding trash drops, which you usually got 2-4 of per run. That's basically an extra boss worth of loot.
You're looking at 24-30 epic drops per run. Your chances are greater than 50% from a full clear of getting some gear assuming you aren't already mostly geared up on that raid tier.
It's really not that bad at all.
It really doesn’t take long before you begin seeing 1/4 or more of those drops being DE fodder. That number only escalated over time.
And of course guild dynamics will also play a part in how easy/difficult it is for your character to get those epic drops. DKP systems afford players *some* level of control in that matter. Loot councils are a different story however. God help you if you are considered a minor contributor to raid success or are inconsistent in your raid attendance. Within both systems you will be relegated to waiting for the scraps to finally trickle down.
There's been a round of threads on General complaining about how hard gear is to get in BfA and how the OP can't wait for Classic because "gear will be easier."
The general reply is a variation of "Uh..."
The general reply is a variation of "Uh..."
Don't forget that items made with professions actually had some weight to them and lasted more than half a level.
How you will cry when the same pieces drop and you wait weeks for upgrades.
It's easy to get geared in Vanilla. As people have explained there is a multitude of avenues including both PvE and PvP.
PvE there are tons and I means tons of Pre-bis and bis items that are blues, craftables, and quest items that will take you through Molten Core and into Blackwing Lair.
Then there are tons of PvP items that are great and some are even bis such as 2pc R7 stuff for Mages.
Let us not forget world epics such as Edgemasters for Warriors.
What people forget all the time is Vanilla is a long game. It takes awhile to get geared, and even longer to get Godmoded. I've had 3 Warriors on different private servers spanning 7 years and only 1 got his Elementium Reinforced Bulwark.
Sometimes RNG sucks and you get stuck with Shaman items as Alliance and Paladin items as Horde. Sometimes Onyxia doesn't drop you a Viskag for 6 months.
But to presume this is incentive to not play is laughable. The people who suffer the discipline of Vanilla relish these small incremental and majestic fortunes in favor of being showered in them in retail. It takes away from the mystique for convenience, and that my friends, is what leads people to disenchantment.
Stick it out with Vanilla and lament your woes. Because Vanilla is a long game, and as such, has stood the test of time.
PvE there are tons and I means tons of Pre-bis and bis items that are blues, craftables, and quest items that will take you through Molten Core and into Blackwing Lair.
Then there are tons of PvP items that are great and some are even bis such as 2pc R7 stuff for Mages.
Let us not forget world epics such as Edgemasters for Warriors.
What people forget all the time is Vanilla is a long game. It takes awhile to get geared, and even longer to get Godmoded. I've had 3 Warriors on different private servers spanning 7 years and only 1 got his Elementium Reinforced Bulwark.
Sometimes RNG sucks and you get stuck with Shaman items as Alliance and Paladin items as Horde. Sometimes Onyxia doesn't drop you a Viskag for 6 months.
But to presume this is incentive to not play is laughable. The people who suffer the discipline of Vanilla relish these small incremental and majestic fortunes in favor of being showered in them in retail. It takes away from the mystique for convenience, and that my friends, is what leads people to disenchantment.
Stick it out with Vanilla and lament your woes. Because Vanilla is a long game, and as such, has stood the test of time.
Gear isn't the most important part of the enjoyment of classic, nor is it even close. My (unpopular?) opinion.
10/29/2018 12:31 PMPosted by NichoI would rather get one piece a MONTH than get a new piece everyday. Make the pieces actually feel better
This. Color of gear has never bothered me,Gear is a tool but rarely getting something worth equipping is alot more disheartening than getting showered in loot thats immediately vendor bound.
10/29/2018 12:36 PMPosted by EllilaineWhile you are correct that when looking at a full clear the rate isn't horrible in the larger raids, it's absolutely true that when compared with the modern game your odds are way worse. 3 for 20/25 is way better than 2 for 40..
I went the whole way through my trial and most of BT/MH progress without getting a weapon upgrade. When I finally got my Torch of the Damned it was literally the biggest day of me raiding with that guild. And thats from someone who isn't gear focussed.
10/29/2018 02:44 PMPosted by Huntsatnight10/29/2018 12:31 PMPosted by NichoI would rather get one piece a MONTH than get a new piece everyday. Make the pieces actually feel better
This. Color of gear has never bothered me,Gear is a tool but rarely getting something worth equipping is alot more disheartening than getting showered in loot thats immediately vendor bound.10/29/2018 12:36 PMPosted by EllilaineWhile you are correct that when looking at a full clear the rate isn't horrible in the larger raids, it's absolutely true that when compared with the modern game your odds are way worse. 3 for 20/25 is way better than 2 for 40..
I went the whole way through my trial and most of BT/MH progress without getting a weapon upgrade. When I finally got my Torch of the Damned it was literally the biggest day of me raiding with that guild. And thats from someone who isn't gear focussed.
Man did that thing look cool too. ;]
10/29/2018 01:19 PMPosted by Spiritbowalso after 12 months or so everything is on FARM
How long does it take to get raids on "farm" in modern wow? A month? I think this is exactly the point the OP making.
The pace of gear acquisition in vanilla was way slower in every aspect of the game, questing, dungeons, raids, pvp, all of it.
Now, just about every quest hub rewards a piece of two of gear that is *specifically for your character*. In vanilla each quest rewarded a specific item: like a shield, or a dagger. Can't use shields? Can't use daggers? Well, I guess you just got some vendor trash.
Dungeons used to drop fixed gear from bosses. Don't have a shaman in your party? Well, I guess that intellect mail isn't going to be useful.
Raids dropped far less gear per player than current raids do.
This actually made upgrades feel *significant*. Now, you get upgrades so frequently that the power-gain is insignificant, so the gear feels pointless. This is exacerbated by the fact that the game is so easy, that better gear just makes it *even easier* which kinda makes the whole game worse.
And so, the slow acquisition of gear, in my opinion, was actually a good thing as it made each upgrade memorable. I remember crafting Toughened Leather Gloves for when my hunter was way past their required level, because they were still a massive upgrade over the gear I had equipped. Now, I couldn't *name* a single piece of gear on any of my characters because they aren't significant.
I could probably name more individual, memorable items from Vanilla than from all the last 4 expansions. I think that says a lot.
10/29/2018 02:33 PMPosted by LoialIt's easy to get geared in Vanilla.
...
10/29/2018 02:33 PMPosted by LoialWhat people forget all the time is Vanilla is a long game. It takes awhile to get geared, and even longer to get Godmoded.
Uh, what? You say it's "easy", then say it takes "awhile" [sic] "and even longer". Make up your mind? Which is it?
10/29/2018 12:22 PMPosted by Agonyy"Good lucking getting gear when raid bosses only drop 2 epics in a 40 man raid."
Modern WoW players say this all the time and seem to imply that only 2 epics drop per raid.
lets break this down
Molten core, 10 raid bosses, each boss drops 2 pieces of loot, with some a chance to drop 3 pieces, Ragnaros drops 4 pieces.
this is at LEAST 24 pieces of loot in a Molten Core Clear. and don't forget that there is BoE epic drops while killing trash as well.
40 man raid, 24 minimum epics dropping, that seems like very good odds to me that you will be getting a piece of loot each time your entering MC.
and when BWL and ZG come out the chances of you gaining a piece of loot each week is pretty high.
Let's say you raid 8 times a month, you will get about 3 pieces of gear per month. Don't forget; duplicate pieces will drop, and you will spend your dkp or drop down on the kings list allowing someone else to grab that other piece you could have used.
Epic Gear may have taken longer to get in Classic, but it was totally worth it. I remember a warden staff dropping in BRD on my birthday. I was on this druid, We all rolled need, and I won. The odds of that statistically happening are insanely low... and that’s while I’ll remember it. Still sitting in my bank.
You come to depend on your friends and guildies in vanilla, and you’re HAPPY for them when they get an awesome drop, because it makes the team better, and they’re happy when you get a drop for the same reasons.
You come to depend on your friends and guildies in vanilla, and you’re HAPPY for them when they get an awesome drop, because it makes the team better, and they’re happy when you get a drop for the same reasons.
10/29/2018 01:28 PMPosted by Retlan24 pieces each week, 96 minimum each month. That's 2,4 pieces average each month for a player in a raid of 40. And that's just for MC. That's exactly how the game should be, epics should be RARE, we don't need to be showered with epics like retail.
The joy of getting one damn rare item will be more than retail where you get those 335 "epics" from the daily headless horseman just for the sake of being epic.
Hell I even liked being full BLUE, it was an achievement being full blue, it was good gear.
It's OK when you can actually use gear between tiers because ilvl inflation hasn't gone crazy (assuming the gear is well itemized) and you aren't going to have it invalidated by another expac or even 'new' tiers released.
That's the biggest thing I hate about retail... the loss of a deterministic loot system and being able to set progression goals for any and all of my toons. The continuation of and doubling-down on horribad design decisions is what finally got me to quit again.
Layered RNG can stay in D3 and loot-box F2P games.
In the first 4 months or so you could get shaman gear in alliance raids and paladin gear in Horde raids. You could also get T1 and T2 gear but not all pieces were dropped from the sets. BOE drops were rare. Before BWL came out they removed T2 except from Ragnaros (and Onyxia), and added the missing T1 pieces. At some point around this time they also improved the quality of gear being dropped with minor changes and fixed it so you didnt get opposing faction drops. A little later they increased the frequency of BOE drops.