Gonna slowly do some AV math here

WoW Classic WoW Classic General Discussion
1

Normal Pug AV strat for Classic (not Vanilla) for Alliance seems to be…

IGNORE EVERYTHING, ZERG DREK.

The following need to happen in order for this to work

  • Horde have to not cut the raid in half by flanking the most obvious and predictable lines of movement.
  • Horde have to not backcap or participate in PvP.
  • Alliance need to have 2 tanks that know what to do and at least 2 healers that have enough mana to keep tanks up at RH / FW Keep.
  • There needs to be enough Alliance DPS to actually kill this stuff.
  • Horde need to not attack Alliance while these WMs are being attacked.
  • Horde need to not attack Alliance while Drek is being attacked.

Given the best case scenario (which still happens kinda often) we have…

Reputation gained by Alliance in the best case scenario of this strat
Killing the enemy General (+389 reputation)
Killing Commanders/Lieutenants (+12 reputation) only the RH GY commander gets killed.
RH GY commander gives another 12 reputation when the game ends
Turning in 3 marks of Honor (+100 reputation)

That’s 513 rep including the mark turnin.

The worst case scenario for the current Reputation gained by Horde is…

Killing Belinda (+125 reputation)
Galv still alive at the end of match (+125 reputation)
Kill Enemy Lieutenants (+12 rep x 6 = +72 rep for all 6)
Kill Enemy Commanders (+12 rep x 4 = +48 rep for all 4)
At the end of match Lieutenants give bonus honor (another 72 rep)
At the end of match Commanders give bonus honor (another 48 rep)
Control intact towers (12 rep x 4) = 48 rep
1 mark for a loss is +33 rep as 3 marks give 100.
Lets assume that towers and mines don’t get capped but this gives horde even more rep and this happens when the game goes over 10 minutes.

So the WORST case scenario for horde is the following…
571 reputation. (125, 125, 72, 48, 72, 48, 48, 33)

So Horde get MORE rep.

Now Honor of games of short duration will not include burned towers…

Alliance Honor
198 Honor for killing RH GY Commander
396 Honor for killing the General.

Horde Honor
198 Honor x6 Lieutenants = 1,188 honor
198 Honor x4 Commanders = 792 honor
198 Honor Galv Survives game end
198 Honor each recapped Tower and GY at match end lets assume IB GY gets recapped and Alliance zerg skips TP and FW east and FW west. So 792.
198 Extra Honor for SH and IW tower burn. Takes 4 minutes to burn, 2 minutes to capture running from the start point. This is 396 honor whenever the game takes more than 6 minutes. Most games take 6-8 minutes under the best case scenario for alliance.
Alliance skip IB GY and FW GY so that’s 396 more honor at the end for successfully held graveyards.
Lets assume games are just too fast for other towers to burn.

So 3564 Honor vs 594 Honor - 605% higher Honor gain.
So things like this screenshot are just common.
https://imgur.com/a/ht2mcyh

You technically win but you lose in every way.

  • You get practically 0 honor as alliance with this garbage strat which means every alliance member running a GOOD AV strat will just annihilate the honor standings as the good strats average between 2700-4500 honor per match.
  • You get less REP on a win than Horde are getting on a loss. The very reason people are quantifying this garbage strat is REP which is still lower.
  • And this is the best case scenario and assuming that horde haven’t been min/maxing. Minmaxing AV involves taking advantage of the mindlessly predictable strategy of running straight to drek by cutting off the 60% mounted players from the rest and backcapping everything to maximize end honor. And this will eventually result in win rates closer to 50% while still obtaining nothing for honor and getting less rep.
  • And that’s not even the worst part. The worst part is that trying to improve or shift the meta results in the most toxic cancerous “YOU NEED TO KILL YOURSELF, EVERYONE REPORT THIS GUY” type of responses. And this is even after spending many hours in classic and COUNTLESS hours in Vanilla using the Galv —> Drek strat (killing LTs/Commanders) on the way and winning consistently in 6-10 minutes.

TLDR - Cognitive dissonance and frustration whenever I play random games. Maybe the garbage strats will end after all these PvE realms get their exalted AV rewards in the easiest Exalted AV grind in Vanilla’s history.

37 Likes
2

Great post. Unfortunately I think most people who post on these forums are more interested in feelings and drama than hard numbers and rational discussion.

19 Likes
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You can’t change it they got in with premades who made sure that towers were capped and lieutenants were killed. Now PUG Alliance is convinced that Drek strat is the best.

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I played Vanilla and played AV long enough to hit exalted from neutral more than FORTY TIMES by just playing it for PvP and honor. Played enough WSG to hit exalted twice and had a high win rate…

…I played WSG longer than I played AV. Just wanted people to understand how fast the AV rep was. Its the only exalted faction that was never considered a grind in Vanilla.

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Sorry you did all that math.

Oh, c’mon, it’s fun watching them sing their own praises! Hehehe. :joy:

2 Likes
6

Galv —> Drek (1 group wipes out LTs and Commanders) best honor and rep per hour strat. There’s a reason why Premades do it. It wins all the time and you actually get honor and rep from it.

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LT kills stop giving rep at Revered, which is only halfway there.

This probably affects the math in some way.

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I’m both impressed and confused.

What on earth would motivate you to calculate all of this? I have a headache…

1 Like
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The easiest thing to do is just wipe Horde at Balinda and push up with caps but good luck with that.

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Because minmaxers need hard numbers for them to get their heads out of their a$$.

5 Likes
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Excellent post OP, didn’t expect to come here and learn something today

4 Likes
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Bump because the WORLD…of warcarft most know

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Generally that creates a turtle. The only good way to do an alliance turtle is to make sure IB GY is captured first. But be prepared for a 15-20 minute game where alliance are yelling at you while you win.

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WAIT!! You forgot one thing about alliance’s stupid strat… It essentially kills AV as a PvP BG.

The horde ruined world pvp(and going to pve instances) with their player ratio.

Now the alliance is ruining AV with their dumb “rush the boss to win AV in 5 mins” strat. “wE dOnT cAre, wE jUsT wAnT rEP”. Rep for what? get a couple of dumb items… to use on what? Cant pvp out in the world, allies cant win a damn WSG unless theyre premade, and nobody goes to AV to PvP anyways. So what are we gonna use our “cool items” on? More mobs?

AV is dead. That thing used to be a WAR man. We’re supposed to be having fun killing each other not turn the thing into a PVE quick grind instance.

Classic WoW really sucks man. You know a game sucks when you feel happy when you log off and go play a different game. This is definitely not the WoW I used to love.

8 Likes
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players killed classic

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16

Yea well… this month was my last $16.

If only there was a refund button… could of gotten a couple of nice LoL skins with that.

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I like how your “worst case scenario” for horde is literally killing everything but Van. Freaking optimist.

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18

I got around 2k rep for 30min game and we won.

Like your math but it’s fun to beat Alliance even tho it’s better to rush/lose .

Just to slap Ally around and make them realise they aren’t gud

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Shhh dont tell them I want them to think they are “winning” the game and “roflstomping horde” and that “Horde are salty because they keep losing” it seemed like they needed it.

3 Likes
21

A lot of those rep sources stop at revered, you should check your math again.

4 Likes