Did anyone experiment with gold-bidding & redistribution during vanilla?
I'm brainstorming a capitalist raid loot system that runs on gold bids, where players bid on items with gold, then all earning get distributed evenly to guild attendees at the end of the raid, with a small tax kept for buying raid mats.
1. This would allow the guild to seemlessly invite players from outside the guild to raid with them and bid on items, feeding wealth into the guild.
2. The system is stateless between raids, so there's no DKP tracking, just some arithmetic after each raid.
3. Guildies would get rewarded for showing up to raids where nothing they want drops.
Has anyone attempted this structure before?
2 Likes
GDKP...
It was a thing in Wrath, I believe... I went on a few runs...
It might work, but the raids were much more PuG friendly in Wrath. So who knows.
It was a thing in Wrath, I believe... I went on a few runs...
It might work, but the raids were much more PuG friendly in Wrath. So who knows.
I saw it a lot on pservers. At the end of the raid, the collected gold is evenly redistributed to the raid, with the host taking a small percentage (10% was common)
I never heard of anyone selling runs back in vanilla, gold yes but not runs, people only wanted to raid with their guilds or the absolute best pugs they could find, there was no carry's, not until about wrath it might of started.
11/07/2018 08:53 AMPosted by LagspikeI saw it a lot on pservers. At the end of the raid, the collected gold is evenly redistributed to the raid, with the host taking a small percentage (10% was common)
That's exciting. No one did that on my server during vanilla, but we sold items to bidders in MC & BWL after we got geared up.
Looking forward to trying this in live. :0
I'm a big fan of Gold-DKP. Yay capitalism!
1 Like
It definitely won't work early on when most raiders are impoverished MC raiders, and there aren't multiple tiers of content, but later on I don't see why not.
11/07/2018 09:09 AMPosted by FuryofevilIt definitely won't work early on when most raiders are impoverished MC raiders, and there aren't multiple tiers of content, but later on I don't see why not.
Ha ha,, yah they will be lucky to pay for their repair bills let alone buy new gear.
Gdkp is awesome. I love it because I farm gold very quickly living off of government aid and spending the majority of my 18 hours on WoW pickpocketing RFD. 1800g Viskag? No problem. PepeHands.
2 Likes
GDKP was a lot of fun on Rift. We would GDKP Hammerknell mostly which was a mid-tier raid. Most people there were in gear from a mix of t2 and t3 which was great for clearing it but still needing some pieces (especially trinkets).
You should be aware of which guilds are cool and honest, and which ones to avoid for GDKP runs.
You should be aware of which guilds are cool and honest, and which ones to avoid for GDKP runs.
Not a fan of this.
It's like doing your part in the raid isnt enough. You didnt contribute enough. i formed the raid its mine. Pay me gold for the loot I got us.
Sounds childish. If someone needs an item... Be fair.
It's like doing your part in the raid isnt enough. You didnt contribute enough. i formed the raid its mine. Pay me gold for the loot I got us.
Sounds childish. If someone needs an item... Be fair.
4 Likes
11/07/2018 09:32 AMPosted by WarrchiefNot a fan of this.
It's like doing your part in the raid isnt enough. You didnt contribute enough. i formed the raid its mine. Pay me gold for the loot I got us.
Sounds childish. If someone needs an item... Be fair.
Yeah that's what we did in vanilla, but it required a huge complex dkp spreadsheet and a ton of nasty guild politics.
The problem isn't when one person needs an item, it's when 9 people all need the same item. :D
11/07/2018 08:47 AMPosted by WindfuryDid anyone experiment with gold-bidding & redistribution during vanilla?
I'm brainstorming a capitalist raid loot system that runs on gold bids, where players bid on items with gold, then all earning get distributed evenly to guild attendees at the end of the raid, with a small tax kept for buying raid mats.
1. This would allow the guild to seemlessly invite players from outside the guild to raid with them and bid on items, feeding wealth into the guild.
2. The system is stateless between raids, so there's no DKP tracking, just some arithmetic after each raid.
3. Guildies would get rewarded for showing up to raids where nothing they want drops.
Has anyone attempted this structure before?
As a theoretical it seems interesting but has some pitfalls. This does lead to the same issue as pure capitalistic system (for the gear reward anyways) in which the rich are rewarded above all others. I think the pseudo socialistic concept of redistributing the gold would be beneficial to all raid members attending but at the same time the fact that someone that just plain farms more gold can essentially buy out all the gear in a raid (relevant to them that is) would be a less than effective means of progress at the end of the day as he who has the gold will have the gear which would make farming easier (as you can kill NPCs faster and gank other players farming the same nodes more easily) which would make gold pour in faster which would give them more spending power for gear which then perpetuates a cycle of gear acquisition. I think it could work but you would need to have it in a less "raw" state when it comes to bidding.
11/07/2018 09:41 AMPosted by Nalal11/07/2018 08:47 AMPosted by WindfuryDid anyone experiment with gold-bidding & redistribution during vanilla?
I'm brainstorming a capitalist raid loot system that runs on gold bids, where players bid on items with gold, then all earning get distributed evenly to guild attendees at the end of the raid, with a small tax kept for buying raid mats.
1. This would allow the guild to seemlessly invite players from outside the guild to raid with them and bid on items, feeding wealth into the guild.
2. The system is stateless between raids, so there's no DKP tracking, just some arithmetic after each raid.
3. Guildies would get rewarded for showing up to raids where nothing they want drops.
Has anyone attempted this structure before?
As a theoretical it seems interesting but has some pitfalls. This does lead to the same issue as pure capitalistic system (for the gear reward anyways) in which the rich are rewarded above all others. I think the pseudo socialistic concept of redistributing the gold would be beneficial to all raid members attending but at the same time the fact that someone that just plain farms more gold can essentially buy out all the gear in a raid (relevant to them that is) would be a less than effective means of progress at the end of the day as he who has the gold will have the gear which would make farming easier (as you can kill NPCs faster and gank other players farming the same nodes more easily) which would make gold pour in faster which would give them more spending power for gear which then perpetuates a cycle of gear acquisition. I think it could work but you would need to have it in a less "raw" state when it comes to bidding.
Yeah that's a really good point.
It would probably need to be blended with a progression item priority list to make sure the most consistent players get the gear they need to advance the guild.
Like progression items would be distributed by a dictatorship, then everyone bids on the fun stuff (like DPS, off-spec, and PvP items)
11/07/2018 09:49 AMPosted by Windfury<span class="truncated">...</span>
As a theoretical it seems interesting but has some pitfalls. This does lead to the same issue as pure capitalistic system (for the gear reward anyways) in which the rich are rewarded above all others. I think the pseudo socialistic concept of redistributing the gold would be beneficial to all raid members attending but at the same time the fact that someone that just plain farms more gold can essentially buy out all the gear in a raid (relevant to them that is) would be a less than effective means of progress at the end of the day as he who has the gold will have the gear which would make farming easier (as you can kill NPCs faster and gank other players farming the same nodes more easily) which would make gold pour in faster which would give them more spending power for gear which then perpetuates a cycle of gear acquisition. I think it could work but you would need to have it in a less "raw" state when it comes to bidding.
Yeah that's a really good point.
It would probably need to be blended with a progression item priority list to make sure the most consistent players get the gear they need to advance the guild.
Like progression items would be distributed by a dictatorship, then everyone bids on the fun stuff (like DPS, off-spec, and PvP items)
That's a pretty simple yet effective solution, perhaps something like a frequent bid penalty could be implemented also/alternatively, adding a % tax on top of the bid based on how many items they had gotten that month.
this definitely happened in wrath on both my alliance server and my horde server. i remember it specifically for the Trial raids after ICC had been out for a little bit. i can't be bothered to read every comment on here, but many of the more talented guilds would visit older raids with a group or two vacant and bring along pugs willing to purchase things if the guild members didn't need them. it was often advertised in trade chat anything was up for bid other than trinkets. i've slept since then so some of the details are a little fuzzy*
*i realize this isn't exactly what you're talking about because it includes guild outsiders, but it's a way for a guild to make gold once they've progressed past certain content using more traditional methods
*i realize this isn't exactly what you're talking about because it includes guild outsiders, but it's a way for a guild to make gold once they've progressed past certain content using more traditional methods
i think LFR had a hand in killing this in subsequent expansions, but i believe it will have a place in classic. a guild could bring thirty members and ten outsiders and whatever gold is accrued by the end could be distributed among the thirty guild members. perhaps with some held back for tanks on progression nights.
11/07/2018 09:55 AMPosted by Vlisthis definitely happened in wrath on both my alliance server and my horde server. i remember it specifically for the Trial raids after ICC had been out for a little bit. i can't be bothered to read every comment on here, but many of the more talented guilds would visit older raids with a group or two vacant and bring along pugs willing to purchase things if the guild members didn't need them. it was often advertised in trade chat anything was up for bid other than trinkets. i've slept since then so some of the details are a little fuzzy*
*i realize this isn't exactly what you're talking about because it includes guild outsiders, but it's a way for a guild to make gold once they've progressed past certain content using more traditional methods
Yeah my guild made a ton of gold in vanilla running Molten Core during Naxx & BWL. We usually had ~20-ish guild raiders and 20 bidder pugs.
One time we made 700g pp in a single run lol
I look forward to discovering how quickly this could happen again (:
11/07/2018 10:06 AMPosted by Windfury11/07/2018 09:55 AMPosted by Vlisthis definitely happened in wrath on both my alliance server and my horde server. i remember it specifically for the Trial raids after ICC had been out for a little bit. i can't be bothered to read every comment on here, but many of the more talented guilds would visit older raids with a group or two vacant and bring along pugs willing to purchase things if the guild members didn't need them. it was often advertised in trade chat anything was up for bid other than trinkets. i've slept since then so some of the details are a little fuzzy*
*i realize this isn't exactly what you're talking about because it includes guild outsiders, but it's a way for a guild to make gold once they've progressed past certain content using more traditional methods
Yeah my guild made a ton of gold in vanilla running Molten Core during Naxx & BWL. We usually had ~20-ish guild raiders and 20 bidder pugs.
One time we made 700g pp in a single run lol
I look forward to discovering how quickly this could happen again (:
for what it's worth, i believe this to be a more fair approach. putting current progression gear up for bid with gold will be extremely off-putting to those that may be extremely talented and available raiders, but with less time to play. it could really affect your available talent pool.
11/07/2018 10:06 AMPosted by Vlisi think LFR had a hand in killing this in subsequent expansions, but i believe it will have a place in classic. a guild could bring thirty members and ten outsiders and whatever gold is accrued by the end could be distributed among the thirty guild members. perhaps with some held back for tanks on progression nights.
As long as it's handled by external accounting I'm totally on board with this, I recall a few healers I guilded with complain endlessly how hard farming was for them and how frequently people would be donating them gold for consumes just because of how vital their roll was.