Can’t stand arcane literally a one button spec. How it made it past development is beyond me.
I’ve played it in wod and BFA, skipped legion. It was so much better in wod, mana management and prismatic cysatal, supernova actually being good. Arcane blast was only like 60% of the damage instead of 98%.
Because they want more attention.
“Let’s make this spec centered around X, then slowly remove X over time, then wonder why classes don’t feel distinct anymore.”
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Back in wrath my ret pally friend had a UI mod that told him which ability to press to maximize dps. Quality class design indeed.
Considering that implies more than one button, yes it’s better than what we have.
In all seriousness, if your argument is really “class design wasn’t better because bads used addons to play the game for them” it’s safe to say you’re not posting in good faith.
Mages had huge spellbooks as part of their utility. You specialized in one type of magic, but could use your arcane/fire spells as frost pretty effectively for certain situations. This was countered by the fact that they flopped over pretty easily if they played poorly, or a geared warrior managed to get to them. Now they barely have enough spells to keep one spec interesting and Legion was already kinda limited, we don’t even have those passives anymore.
Rogues had huge toolkits to counter their squishiness, and specialized in assassination. Now they can’t even disarm traps, the one core thing the D&D sneak archetype has always been able to do. I remember being livid at that change in WoD. Why? For what purpose?
Warlocks and shadow priests effectively switched roles. Affliction was the “DoT everything and watch it all melt” class, shadow was the “Dot everything, but I hate that one guy in particular” class. Insanity was fun at first, but after repeated nerfs, I’d rather have the shadow orb system back for Shadow, and the old snapshot affliction playstyle back for affliction.
Those are four examples of how they’ve kinda botched things up, I could do a writeup on every class I have experience with…but I don’t want to.
I’m saying rotations that are as simple as “press the abilities as the come off cooldown” isn’t some class design to be lauded. People always land on a different expansion that was “The Best” for “The Thing” and usually they aren’t the same expansions.
Are you arguing that most classes rotations only consist of one button?
MoP-era class design certainly wasn’t that, and a good number of WotLK classes (All in PvP) were far more complex then than they are now. By quite a large margin.
It’s weird how few people cite WoD, Legion or BfA as the “best” time for their class.
If you weren’t hellbent on whiteknighting here, you might wonder why that is.
Issue is for some people, wotlk and mop were some of the worst times for their class… Almost like
Funny you bring up Warlocks, most everyone I’ve seen vastly wants their MoP-era class back, and have practically formed a cult around Xelnath
Agree and disagree with OP. Some (a few) classes are really pretty good right now. So, I’d hate to see them changed back. But yeah, most classes and specs were better in previous expansions.
Thanks
I don’t recall that, actually. Granted, I don’t play Warlock, but the Arena forum Warlocks seemed happy with the class, from what I saw on MMO-C, locks there were happy enough.
Since WoD happened, I’ve heard nothing but “MoP Warlock was so much better” from them, and as a Warrior, I feel the exact same.
I’m curious as to which ones you think are fine.
My current theory is that they know exactly what they’re doing. They’re purposely gimping the classes and robbing them of their gameplay so as to force you to grind crappy Azerite to get some lackluster versions of the talents/abilities you used to have.
I wish people would stop making vague statements like “I hate how my class was gutted” and start specifically listing what abilities they want back.
Because for the most part, all the classes I’ve played don’t feel much different than in MoP. (Specs like Outlaw and Survival are exceptions of course)
In a certain sense, this is exactly correct.
They’ve decided that classes should be bare, so that they can be supplemented each expansion with an additional form of progression (Artifacts, Legendaries, Azerite).
The problem is, that system results in horrible class design in general. Azerite flopped from the start, as there was a hard ceiling on just how impactful the traits themselves could be.
But even Legendaries and Artifacts weren’t great. Pre-prune classes had far more depth to them than one with a full artifact weapon and BiS legendaries.
I get that they want a max level progression system, but this isn’t it. I’d happily grind attunements, rep or whatever else instead of being forced to grind so my class can be a fraction as interesting as it was before this.
This one is pretty much perfect. Windwalker spec, at least. The only thing I ever feel like I’m missing is a quick ranged attack, like a weapon throw, to tag stuff. Have to stop and use lightning for a second, or if I’m just pulling, use taunt. Other than that, this spec flows really well, does good damage, isn’t very squishy, has lots of utility that Blizzard hasn’t completely stripped out yet like other classes, and is just fun to play.
This lines up with a Hazzikostas quote where he says “Don’t just say you don’t like pruning, tell us what you want back.”
The problem is, what that really means is "we have a vision and we’re going to implement it whether you like it or not, so tell us what you can’t plug your nose and deal with.
Depending on what class you actually main, the issue might (more than likely) be entirely on your end. If you weren’t playing well and using your entire kit during MoP, then of course pruning is going to leave you unscathed.
@Peppermint
Any others or just WW?
Kinda early to mention DH since they just came out in Legion, but I think they’re fine and fun to play. Bit light on utility abilities though, with Havoc at least. Doesn’t even fill up my bar. But it doesn’t hurt gameplay any. Just kinda wish we had a few extra niche utility abilities. I don’t know what though.
My survival hunter isn’t 120 yet so maybe I’m wrong, but I’ve found the spec to be a lot of fun and pretty unique.
Other than that, the specs I play, prot paladin, affliction lock, elemental and enhance shaman, frost DK, were all better in other expansions. That said, the lock and DK are pretty close to how fun they used to be, to me at least. I just miss a lot of utility on my lock, and a little on my DK. Prot paladin is kinda meh now. I miss some old abilities. Shaman is just ugh.
Edit to add: Shadow priest is just straight garbage. My priest that I’ve played since Classic is just a garrison farming bag maker now.
Won’t fix the game. If you want to fix the game the devs need to drop Pokemon, get rid of altoholsm (NEEDING every combination is why the devs have to have gear drop like candy at a parade) and focus in on a better engine and a more fullfilling content that drives the story and the game…giant swords stabbing planets is just dumb. Sure class design would help but it does not make or break the current game.