in m+ my meta uptime is around 50% and in raids is even lower like 25-30%. I have an essense shear trait for more fragments and am pressing fracture on CD. Youtuber says meta uptime is around 100% for him in m+ is there something i am missing with this build? I am at 20% haste is that too low?
Are you running vision of perfection?
Your haste isnt really going to give you more uptime on Meta through gluttony, its only going to have so many procs per minute.
And if youre looking at the buff uptime through details just remember that its tracking buffs through the entire run, even when youre not in combat; although i could be wrong about that.
I havent really played much since 8.3, but i remember even before the VoP buff meta was up pretty reliably, so ide imagine with the buff to VoP and the gluttony talent you could probably see a meta uptime of 60-75%.
If you get super lucky with procs and you get a couple gluttony procs and a VoP proc with your Meta skill you could probably even see 25-30 seconds of Meta. cries in Legion
i am using VOP major but it is only lvl 1 perhaps that is a sizable impact.
Im pretty sure details only takes into account when you are in combat
He’s exaggerating to try to prove his point. Every now and then he may get lucky and get 100% for a single minute but those scenarios are so few and far between.
Meta + demon spikes should keep you around 70-90% uptime on defensives with the gluttony/vision build.
Gluttony is RPPM, which scales with haste. Last I heard, it’s 2 RPPM, so you’ll get, on average, 2 * (1 + Haste%) procs per minute.
Details only tracks combat data, it doesn’t record while out of combat. The uptime chart is the percentage of time in combat in which the buff was active.
Edit: Wowhead lists VoP as having a proc rate of 0.85-1.0 RPPM, depending on spec. I’m not sure if that guide/page has been updated for the 12% proc rate buff in 8.3, but I’m going to assume it was not. That should give it a proc rate of ~1.12 at the top end. It grants 35% of the base duration, so 5.25s per proc.
Gluttony is 2 RPPM, 5s per proc. Both are RPPM and thus scale linearly with haste. At base, you should expect to see 15.88s per minute in uptime with both (~26.5%). With say 20% haste, that rises to 19.06s per minute, or 31.76%.
So pretty unlikely you’d see 50%+ in a sustained fight. Your 25-30% uptime in raids is right in line with the expected uptime.
However, note that downtime is extremely beneficial to RPPM effects. The RPPM “time since last procable attack” is reset on the start of raid boss fights, and probably instance boss fights as well, but not on entering combat with trash mobs. This time interval is capped at 10 seconds, but that does mean that your first attack (or first soul consumption, for Gluttony) of a new trash pull, if you were out of combat for at least 10 seconds prior to pulling, will have a massively inflated proc chance. With 20% haste, your first ability would have up to a 20% chance of procing VoP, and your first soul consumption would have up to a 40% chance of procing Gluttony.
Since trash packs are also often fairly short, and the out-of-combat downtime between packs doesn’t count against the Uptime metric in Details, it’s very common to see much higher uptimes in M+ than would otherwise be possible, simple to the mechanics of RPPM and how Details (and other meters) track uptime.
Unfortunately, 90% is extremely unlikely. As above, VoP + Gluttony provides ~31% uptime. Demon Spikes, at 20% haste, provides ~36%, for a total of ~67%, but that assumes zero overlap (which is unlikely due to the RNG in both VoP and Gluttony). Even adding Fiery Brand (with Revel) only bumps you to about 84%, again assuming zero overlap. In practice, 60-70% uptime on at least one defensive is probably the highest feasible.
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I love how people are stating random crap. Xaedys gives math. You will never see 70% to 100% uptime on AM for a demon hunter because blizzard is incompetent.
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I think that’s not really the matter, as I think that all tanks having 100% AM is not the answer. Vengeance has very strong mitigation when it’s available and I think that’s worth more than an averagely strong one on 100% uptime. We need to differentiate some if we’re going to have different classes.
That being said, Blizzard could certainly bump our passive mitigation some more and maybe not make our survivability so random. I’m super strong if I get the right Meta procs and can tank stuff other tanks would struggle with, but I have no control when.
Going back on topic, you want as much Haste as possible for Meta procs, damage, healing, DS cooldown, etc. I’m sitting on 36% Haste and 21% Vers and it feels very good. I also had the stars align for me one time and had Meta up for a whole 1.5min fight and could tank the tree boss in WM without moving on a +18.
If boss fights were actually designed with the sub-100%-uptime AM model in mind, then sure, but they aren’t. Bosses hit hard the entire time, and their “hit really hard” abilities are timed and tuned for actual cooldowns to be used against them, not just AM.
If bosses had fairly regular but properly spaced and telegraphed high-damage windows/events, that were both timed and tuned for AM mitigation, and their “normal” DPS in between could be handled without AM, then sub-100% uptime would work just fine. But that’s not how it works right now. They added AM, but the encounter designers never seemed to take it into account.
I didn’t raid at anything approaching a competitive level over the last two tiers, but back in BoD, Jaina just continuously stacked her debuff, Mekkatorque just blasted the tanks, Bwom on Rastakhan was pure magic damage, Paku just continuously stacked his damage buff, Gonk’s bleed ignored armor (ie. most AM) and also occurred too often to effectively mitigate with AM even it was possible, Kimbul’s was also a bleed, etc.
Like, none of these fights were designed for tanks to use AM as a counter to abilities or buffs or debuffs or whatever. They were designed to just hammer the tanks, and AM simply contributed to overall average mitigation. Sub-100% uptime simple doesn’t work in that model, because it results in you being tankier than you really need to be while AM is up, and simply going squish when it isn’t.
Well, my statement was with current raid and M+ encounters in mind. In raids I pretty much don’t have any issues with tank damage, granted there are still some Mythic bosses that I haven’t tried yet because we still haven’t made it to them, but the ones I’ve experienced so far were no problem at all.
In M+ however there are only 2 bosses that hit REALLY hard on tanks, namely Rezan and Mcimba or whatever his name is (second boss in King’s Rest). Every other boss very manageable at the +19~20 levels that I’m used to.
The only time AM really makes a difference, and this is the main problem for me, is tanking trash packs in M+. You take way more damage from thrash packs than you do from bosses, and while you can feel godlike with good Meta procs, my life would’ve been a lot easier if they weren’t so random. It sometimes procs when I’m killing something that dies really quickly and poses no threat, but sometimes it doesn’t when I’m tanking 10 mobs and it could’ve really saved my life.
Lol. A rather apropos Freudian slip right there.
To be honest, that might be part of the problem. Trash is a bit too dangerous on tanks (and yet still too easy to mass AoE, but that’s another issue), and bosses aren’t dangerous enough. It annoys me that even on Tyrannical, boss mechanics aren’t really the hard part. The only major effects of Tyrannical are making boss fights last longer, trash die faster, and at a high enough level, causing certain bosses to occasionally just straight up autogib the tank due to damage scaling and RNG. Most of the matches in the last MDI were decided by trash strategy and efficiency, not bosses, and that makes for unfortunately boring watching. I guess that comes from the fact that mythic (which is arguably the “entry level”, since heroic instances are really just 5-man LFR) and M+ have the same boss mechanics, unlike mythic raid bosses (which are often wildly different from their normal and heroic versions).
I appreciate the well thought out responses. I am not a huge fan of the randomness of gluttony build if i cant get it to near 100% and spirit bomb seems too squishy for 15+ keys. Maybe i should switch to pal… at least they have control over their mitigation
Oops, I fixed it lulz
Yeah, bosses are too easy. Tyrannical just makes them last longer, which makes it kinda boring. What we worry the most with bosses is if we’re going to have Lust + cooldowns so it doesn’t take forever to kill, as everything else is dedicated to trash packs instead and bosses’ strategies remain very linear in their majority.
I wish they would also scale mechanics with M+ level, although it would prove problematic to come up with viable stuff for the +20 range.
If you’re looking for fun, Vengeance is the best one out there in my opinion in terms of toolkit + viability (despite the randomness). Paladin is also fun, so you might like it, but if you are looking to be unkillable + doing some mad DEEPS, then I’d suggest Warrior as they also have good CC and mobility on top of everything else. Of course, for M+.
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Warrior, man. They’re the rockstar tank for 5-mans right now, and very strong in raids as well. Paladins can’t get 100% uptime on defensives either, while warriors can nearly hit it between talents and traits, and can cover any incidental gaps with Ignore Pain anyway. They also have the highest baseline physical mitigation and one of the strongest Active Mitigation effects, plus the shortest cooldown on their “I really don’t want to die yet” buttons due to Anger Management.
Lol. Another of those so appropriate Freudian slips =P
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Nah, this time it was autocorrect. This is why I hate typing on my phone haha
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As above, YouTuber is full of BS…
While Gluttony and VoP can help your survival, you’ll not see 100% meta, nor even 100% mitigation.
Nah, I think you nailed it on the unlikable warrior 
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No one likes Warriors it seems lol
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Well the class theme for warriors is to be angry like all the time, like insane levels of mad. That could get tiring for others to be around.
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Eh, they can try all they want, but they’ll never reach the edgebois level of emo that DHs have going.
I’VE SACRIFICED EVERYTHING! WHAT HAVE YOU GIVEN?!
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That’s true. It’s even part of the spec description when you mouse over havoc “a brooding master…”.
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