Sounds to me like you prefer the design of single player RPG’s.
Not really, but I don’t like “Chore MMOs” that much. I like story-driven RPG content, which Classic isn’t. If you can name an actual MMO that has group based story drive content, I’m all hears.
For now, the best we have is World of Warcraft.
For as much as people use this line, I really doubt they make that much money off of it; the MDI is fairly small in the e-sports industry, which itself isn’t truly massive.
Bro an ad on tv which blizz does get is worth $10s of thousands, they show esports on a few cable channels every couple of months.
No, because that is not the point of an MMORPG.
WoW is an aberration that unfortunately had an IP that attracted fans from their RTS games and drew in a player base that had nothing to do with the gameplay. Newer games tried to copy the gameplay of WoW but did not have the established IP that fleshed out the world in a way that could compete with a storyline that almost all gamers of that time grew up on. This led to the current wasteland of half baked MMO’s and the near death of the persistent world MMORPG.
There is still hope that someone may pull off a great MMORPG that can survive the wave of WoW players who will login, complain they are not at the end game yet and rage quit while trashing the game’s rep on their favorite blog site leaving behind those who truly want to play the game…
/em fingers crossed
Maybe if your definition of MMORPG is very strict and applies only to grindy Korean / Chinese MMOs which are pretty awful.
Sounds like opinion. WoW defined the genre for 15 years and the only other successful MMO is the one that emulated WoW’s changed focus on story telling elements.
Completely agree, OP.
Mythic+ is and has always been garbage tier content. Dungeons do not need timers or Diablo affixes. They’re bad enough with health and damage scaling, the line should be drawn there.
Dungeons are not Greater Rifts, Blizzard. This is WoW, not Diablo. You guys are lazy and have been phoning in this low quality content for years now.
The majority don’t move beyond LFD or LFR, Blizzard. Wake up.
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i disagree, i think it’s fun. i guess they’ll have to compromise and leave it in
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Well thought out post. A timer and competition to finish the dungeon fast just breeds the most toxic bunch.
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I agree with you on everything else in this thread, as some of these posters have nutty expectations for heroic dungeons, but I disagree here.
They went a bit too far with the nerfs, but launch torghast was a shipshow.
Rogue powers were absolute trash and night fae soulshape powers made up 40% of my options while mawrats made up another 30-40%
No, I am not a fan of the eastern MMO’s.
I just do not require a game to lead me by the hand through a story and then drop me into an ‘end game’ that is nothing but repeating the same content over and over for a period of years.
I prefer a world I can take my time to explore and follow the path I choose. You prefer a big overarching story while I prefer thousands of small stories that bring the world to life.
Everquest will likely always be my favorite MMORPG. While the game architecture was not perfect, although it was revolutionary for it’s time, It gave me a world where every dungeon could be a solo, group or raid experience depending on how many levels the mobs were above/below me.
What many WoW players describe as grinding we called playing the game. We took our time and just had fun. The single best time I had in EQ was the months we spent climbing the Tower of Frozen Shadows in Iceclad Ocean. We walked in the door barely able to get past the mobs guarding the entrance and walked out wearing gear from the top floor boss with stories we all still talk about.
In the end I guess different players are looking for different things and retail WoW only supports one.
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Not at all. The design of the world, loot rules, etc in Classic forces people together in a bunch of little ways, and the lack of sharding/phasing means the people I meet are an enduring physical presence in the world. I can chance upon them again, hook up with them for a while. “I can turbo faster by myself” is optimal play, and we see the difference between Vanilla and Classic there.
I’ll grant that a world full of optimal players wasn’t what the intended design was meant for, but that’s fine, I’m not after a return to a moment in history.
Yep! They weren’t efficient, your travel across the world was meandering, and the story wasn’t rushing you along. It was more of a sandbox. You’d think Threads of Fate would offer something like it, but if anything it’s a good case for the current content structure not really meant to be slowed down.
Disagree. You can see the DNA of the current questing experience pre-Cata. TBC started the more linear “theme park” trend just out of necessity funneling everyone into a smaller playspace with fewer options. Hellfire’s a real good example of that. WotLK started trying to develop zone stories and of course introduced phasing to a limited degree.
“Actual RPG” is purely editorial.
Again, you’re being bizarrely antagonistic, and presumptuous besides. I don’t think Classic was strictly better than retail. I think Retail could do with pushing design effort into the part of the experience I enjoy instead of leaving me to rot after 4 days, and I think they can look at the underpinnings of what Classic set out to do and maybe could have done better to achieve that goal.
They’ve paid lip service to these very ideas in interviews leading up to SL’s release, they’re clearly trying to make something happen, but my concern is they have a tough road ahead of them after so many endgame-forwards iterative decisions and so much cultivation of the playerbase.
Classic’s fine for 2004, but it’s a solved problem. Vanilla could have grown into many things, but it chose this one. Like I’d said, every change was made with good intentions, and me falling by the wayside was an unintended consequence. I’ve said repeatedly that I don’t want to take away what they’ve given people. I just don’t want what they give to come at my expense.
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Well I don’t need a game where there is no story and I just slowly walk from chore to chore with no actual rhyme, reason or adventure.
Which you can do in WoW absolutely. You don’t have to follow the story.
Funnily enough, those are called sidequests and exist in WoW in the hundreds too.
No they don’t, just skip group quests and loot rules don’t force anyone to do anything but click dice or coin on the loot window. And then argue when someone picks dice when they shouldn’t have.
Is only because the population dropped so low finally that they removed it.
Uh ? The story absolutely rushed you along. Some quest hubs barely have any quest! Do this one chore and off you go!
Facts are facts.
And you’re being pompous. Like when you type things like :
That’s just you attempting to disguise the lack of depth of your argument by using non-conventional words that can be loosely translated as “That’s just like… your opinion man” in more common parlance.
There, I can do it too. Except I’m not being pompous.
Player feedback shaped what we have now. Every feature in retail wow can be traced back to forum rants.
Just hit that bump on an alt. This is my last convenant and first I remember being forced into a dungeon to progress.
Nah, talking about mob tagging. People fighting for resources in an area was intended to nudge them into grouping to share rewards. Again, you’re constraining yourself purely to optimal play. Which is exactly what the game has evolved to focus on, and did not before.
They don’t need to just re-add old mob tag rules to the game, either. It’s just an example of a design choice specifically intended to lead to emergent social relationships. They can do something else to try to achieve it.
They didn’t design the game with any of that stuff. This is about the stuff it broke.
“Not having a quest throughline” is the opposite of being rushed along. You set your own pace. Again, you’re thinking about optimal play. They decided to embrace that thinking and define and decorate an optimal path, cool. Eventually they squeezed it down. All in line with their design philosophy.
Oh, please. You’re really reaching to turn “big words” into a point, when you misread “Classic > Retail” from my post to begin with.
No, designer discretion did. Which forum rants were listened to, which were ignored, how they were translated into design problems, and how those problems were solved are all absolutely downstream from the dev team’s design philosophy.
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Totally agree, the timed gogogo feeling is pretty awful
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Agreed. I don’t do mythic cause it’s not fun at all, so my gear is mostly pvp and I cap that in a couple days, don’t even feel like logging in anymore
But it does. It makes it so you have to perform everything efficiently and with little error. Is that not skill?
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Yeah, mob tagging is first come first serve, little courtesy there.
It was there day 1 in Classic.
That’s true in Retail too. There’s literally no rush, no quests are timed.
No dude, it’s annoying.
Funny, your language’s level is dropping the further you get irate. Way to try and put on an act.
Dude, that’s a funny way of saying “You’re right”. “Designer discretion”. Lol. You mean they picked what they liked the sound of from … drumroll player feedback.
Like I said, you can try to disguise your bad argument with fancy words, but in the end, they are just bad arguments.
You do realize that the only reason M+ gives better iLvl gear is because it’s harder, right?