You had a 1min opening RP, 15-30 seconds between each council member, the minute when he phase changes. Lots of an RP can be annoying for progression for sure.
Not to mention the solo fighting the council members themselves which was largely pointless.
So? That was part of the authentic TBC experience like it or not. Not everything should be a zerg fest face roll, easily accessible snooze fest. And not every spec gets to be as viable as you want it to be.
MMO 101. Hybrids are second class citizens.
I’m defending a game that I don’t even like out of sheer principle. And that’s plain sad. People are lazy and scrubby. That’s the sad truth.
Edit: I meant OVERALL experience. Not the experience you had. Or the experience BoB had. But the experience someone who did everything at patch had. You know, the ACTUAL overall experience.
So was seal of blood being horde only and not being able to sub in someone to your arena team.
But guess what?
yes it did.
from 40 minute to 2 hours.
sorry. i meant the authentic OVERALL experience. I thought it would have implied. Cherry picking small details are meaningless.
and here I hoped that 2 year of classic would’Ve made it clear that the #nochange stance is utterly and completely stupid.
as if blizzard first draft at a game was the best one…
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I’ll edit my post to include the phrase OVERALL experience.
That is the initial stance of no changes. You can make changes but only to simulate the overall feel of the game.
So if people are cherry picking little details, that has no room for no changes.
The authentic overall experience of the attunement system was a bad one for anyone it actually affected.
News flash: If you were in a raiding guld at the start of TBC, the attunement system did affect you at all. You completed those attunements by killing raid bosses that you were going to kill anyway.
It only affected people who were not in a raiding guild. And if you joined the expansion late, then you weren’t in a raiding guild
Because you had to be attuned to be in a raiding guild.
But you had to be in a raiding guild to be attuned.
It was a huge catch 22 that denied a large section of the player base access to end game content. Which is why attunements were removed and never reintroduced.
To bring them back in TBC classic would be a massive mistake.
I can only imagine that Blizzard plans to bring back the questlines themselves, but not require the final step of killing the raid boss. Which would make them much more like the Classic WoW attunements, which were fine.
At least you admitted you don’t want actual TBC as the game was - overall.
TBC and Vanilla both had soul at patch. You had to work. It was time consuming. And to re-use a Retail players favorite word, it was “tedious”. It’s not “bad”. It might be inconvenient that a game was designed this way, but it’s not objectively “bad”.
I did play a bit of Retail for a couple months. And I believe the term applicable here is LFR hero. Or I’ve also heard the term Wrath baby. It might be applicable to you. You want to beat the game with all the work taken out.
If it doesn’t fit your needs, you cry about it. It’s a scrubby mentality. And a lazy one at that.
Dude, stop with the non-sense. BECAUSE of attunements, there were guilds on all levels of the raid progression path. You could find a guild just starting Kara / T4 content, and ride with them up the attunement path.
And the great thing, attunements kept ALL content relevant for all types of players and guilds. Kara didn’t become obsolete the moment SSC / TK was available, or when BT / Hyjal was available… (oh wait, SSC / TK was available at the start of TBC launch, you just had to accomplish some in game goals to get in… aka attunements).
Why are you saying this catch 22 non-sense? Sure, you couldn’t just waltz into BT / Hyjal the moment you hit 70. And you shouldn’t be doing that anyway. Gearing progression is part of the MMO experience. Attunements are vital to that.
Its fine that blizzard lifted the attunements when the Sunwell patch hit, but attunements shouldn’t be removed until then.
Wow, couldn’t have said it better myself.
Except you couldn’t.
Guilds who were still raiding Kara at that point never progressed beyond Kara. For one thing Kara was a 10 man raid. T5 attunements required you to complete a 25 man raid. So you needed to combine 2.5 kara guilds to even walk into the place.
Pretty much everyone else seems to disagree with you, including the Blizz developers… so 
Literally none of that was true in TBC and it definitely won’t be true in TBC Classic where we’ve already seen that way more players will raid then they did in the original versions.
And most of them still didn’t apply. Because the actual barrier was never attunements, it was the fact that raiding in general was just less popular then than it is now.
How does this make any sense to you? The barrier to guilds being able to raid 25 mans… was the fact that they couldn’t get 25 people together to get the attunements done? How do you think these hypothetical guilds were ever going to seriously run these raids if they couldn’t even get 25 people for the attunements???
The kara attunement is unfair. I want to run a 10 man but I have no friends and no one wants to play with me so I can’t even get enough people together to run the dungeon for my attunement. Attunements should therefore be removed so that I can move on to being mad about not being able to find 5 people to group with to being mad about not being able to find 10 people to group with. Thank you Blizzard.
Yes, it was true. And it was why attunements were removed.
Pretty much everyone else seems to disagree with you, including the Blizz developers… so
If Blizzard developers thought attunements were great for the game, why did they remove them in 2.4 and never reintroduce them again?
They did a lot of things on the road to retail that ended up being bad decisions. I’m pretty sure that’s the entire point of classic
They weren’t, and that was the point.
But if you personally wanted to raid, you couldn’t actually apply to an existing raiding guild. Because you weren’t attuned. You literally couldn’t zone in to a raid without being attuned. And if you were starting from scratch, that meant that guild would have to spend an entire week clearing magtheridon and all TK and SSC before you could even join them in a raid.
Most guilds were understandably unwilling to do that. And when those guilds had players quit the game or stop raiding, their only option was then to poach players from less progressed guilds if they wanted to spend entire weeks of raiding attuning new players.
The system negatively impacted new players and existing guilds. It was a terrible system that benefitted nobody. Only a masochist would genuinely want it back.
Aewendil thinks that because he had a bad experience in TBC, everyone else must have had a bad experience. He already admitted he didn’t get into BT / Hyjal until they lifted the attunement.
Anyone who truly had a desire to see and experience the content, got their attunements done, even if they started the expansion later in its lifecycle.
His argument that there were Kara only guilds, and they couldn’t progress is just disingenuous at best. Sure there were Kara guilds. They only raided Kara because they didn’t have a leadership core that wanted to recruit and form the 25 needed to do the 25 man content. Nothing wrong with being a Kara guild. But if they wanted to progress further, they knew exactly what they needed to do, but didn’t have the will or drive to do so.
@ziryus
Aewendil has to be one of your alts.
I just time warped back 2 years pre-Classic beta forums.
Right.
Because the leadership core who wanted to do 25 man content were by that stage already doing 25 man content.