Blizzard please. Let us drop a mage like table of " Tea" that gives all party members who drink it 3% versatility or some other stat that is useful. 3.6% damage reduction is not as attractive as a shamans skyfury or warrior battleshout etc. As a pure DPS spec, if we aren’t doing over tuned DPS then we are left in the dirt. Also Shroud is useless since dungeon routes are almost exclusively linear and any dangerous mobs in M+ can see through stealth anyway.
3 Likes
A funny thing too that most people haven’t seemed to realize yet is that Atrophic doesn’t even work for everything either. If the ability isn’t casted by the boss then AP actually does nothing but guilds (thankfully I guess) still think that it’s essentially another Devo which it isn’t.
4 Likes
preach my man, it’s a shame blizz gave us the laziest raid buff in the game with nothing to compensate. imagine being a ret pally doing full rotation from narnia and providing useful utility man rogue could have some cool stuff if they bothered
1 Like
I think we need some form of lust, and a raid buff that doesn’t suck. Pally also brings rez utility, 2nd target freedom, and sac/LoH. Whereas, with a Rogue, you get a single character with a mediocre DR and near-zero raid utility with a rogue. trickster Sub/Outlaw can redirect trash but that’s so infinitesimally small that it’s barely worth mentioning, and does nothing for Sin.
Just about every class with a buff has a secondary reason to bring it. Druids, Paladins, and DK if you count grip (the devs do) have BRez. Shaman, Mage, Evoker, and Hunter (Mark, which devs consider also a raid buff) have Lust. Warrior has Rallying Cry and Priest has a ton of utility.
That leaves Monk and DH with nothing, but they have the flexibility of playing healer and tank respectively, which are almost always options to bring, even in their “worst” states.
Rogue? No tank spec (obviously), and no true raid utility. You bring a single one for the AP just as a joke at this point, but anything we can do, either Enhance, Feral, or Ret can do better right now. Lust wouldn’t fix the glaring issues, but something like that, or a raid-wide DR or literally anything useful to the raid would help us actually have a reason to exist.
Play rates are extremely low at the moment, I believe at their historical lowest. Why the heck aren’t we getting attention to fix these issues that people are fleeing the class over?
7 Likes
there are many items you can farm in the world that are useful in raid settings.
a rogues toolkit is outside of the skill trees.
2 Likes
Saifu shut up
5 Likes
Shots fired you gonna take that?
1 Like
Your wisdom shines brightly in these very Rogue forums. Amen.
Beat me to the lust post here. We definitely need a lust or a brez.
The salient point worth highlighting is that we’re the only role-immobile DPS class without either type of ability, and that design decision isn’t aging well at all in modern WoW. I’m not all that passionate about whether or not we need a better raid buff. We probably do, but, to your point, the optics of atrophic in raid are still pretty okay, its problems as an ability notwithstanding. Personally, I’ve always felt like we (or warriors) should have some kind of execute buff or maybe a buff that tacks a minor DoT (1-2% of damage done?) on ally attacks past a certain %HP threshold.
In LFG, things are a totally different story. I mentioned this in a separate thread, but we aren’t brought for atrophic or numbing, so we should be brought for lust or brez instead. Ironically, stuff like atrophic–iron wire, maybe our stuns, our other poisons–that stuff ends up being routinely misconstrued as the other players in the group simply living fights with more skill. The takeaway is hardly ever, “Man, so glad we had a rogue for this run,” and more, “Wow, what a superb healer and responsible use of defensives all around, y’all.”
Ultimately, I think we can all agree that we deserve lust and/or brez for having to suffer the quartet tier token this many seasons in a row…
4 Likes
I’m fairly confident that the reason rogue numbers are so low is not because of a lack of utility, but class design.
People tend to gravitate towards easier classes/specs, and while rogues aren’t exactly the pinacle of difficulty, their design feels… archaic and obtuse, for a lack of a better word. As if you are fighting the class itself rather than what’s front of you.
1 Like
Honestly, both statements can be true at the same time. I’ve asked people directly, and they’ve told me up front that Outlaw, and sometimes just Rogue in general, wasn’t worth bringing because they needed something with utility, such as Shout/Rally or Sac, for some of the later heroic bosses. And don’t even get me started on keys.
The class as a whole is fighting a lot of archaic systems, we quite literally have a set of devs that spent years saying “S&D is a ritual that all rogues must do” and seem to refuse any attempts at modernizing the spec until people are loud enough to force them to.
The class just needs top-down overhauls, bug fixing, and something to fix their “only good for DPS” problem. I don’t really care what the solution to the last one is, easiest solve would probably be a crit raid buff, and maybe something like a weaker raid wide feint to parity and compliment Rallying Cry. But, the overhauls are well overdue. I’m tired of the 100% uptime ADR rotation, boss. We’re the only DPS spec that has an upkeep cooldown instead of a damage window to work around, and it’s exhausting at times. And Sub/Sin deserve some love to bring them into 2025 and out of the 2008-2012 era class design.
4 Likes
Say no more, this is it. And guess what? It fits Rogues thematically. No one cares about Instant Poison anyway. Give us this 2-3% of damage done dot. Works with Sins dot stacking talent, finally gives Outlaw a dot, and Sub gains nothing but a regular dot but thats aight.
1 Like