Give Reckoning/Redoubt their own Batching like Seal Twisting

Left side of video is original 2006 Classic WoW/Right side of video is 2021 1.13.7 Classic WoW
Left side of video 0:30/Right side of video 0:00 redoubt (click more to read for reckoning/redoubt)
Left side of video 0:34/Right side of video 0:34 redoubt (34.5 seconds right side)
Left side of video 0:42/Right side of video 2:04 redoubt
Left side of video 0:52/Right side of video 5:03 redoubt

Left side of video 2:40 was first charge
Left side of video 2:56 was second charge
Left side of video 2:58 was third charge
Left side of video 3:00 was fourth final charge

Starting at 2nd charge
Left side of video 4:09
Left side of video 4:12
Left side of video 4:14

5 mobs against 1 mob in first part
5 mobs against against 2 mobs in the second part
Final part of the right video is a test to see if it procced on one mob compared to the spider mob

As a result it was terrible and the verdict is that reckoning should have its own spell specific spell batching just like seal twisting since it is more important than seal twisting and its charge stacking was used in the entirety of classic.

Original videos

16 Likes

It’s literally possible now for them to correct this after they fixed seal twisting, sure why not

5 Likes

It’s not fair how they fix seal twisting, But the hand of justices fix ruins reckoning. And don’t get reckoning fixed Only seal twists… I think it should have its own spell batching as well. I would support this fix for sure!

4 Likes

nice evidance smallhead, i hope blizzard gets this storted our for paladins too.

5 Likes

true so far charging is not currently correct

4 Likes

Fingers Crossed they fix

5 Likes

Things I noticed in the 1.13.7 patch

The sit speed looked slower
But worst of all, I had 5 mobs hitting me and I averaged 105 seconds to get a charge, when 1 mob hit the 2006 player and it averaged over 7 seconds.
If you include the second paladin in 2006, Murtaugh, he had 2 orc mobs hitting him and averaged 3.3 seconds for 3 stacks! So if there had been 5 mobs hitting him, he would probably of averaged 2 seconds compared to my 105 seconds it took me to get a stack)

As you can see redoubt fades off at 0 seconds

Which means it didnt start at 0 seconds, it started at
-10 seconds in the video time when I got the first charge

2021 current classic wow
5 Stockade Mobs are hitting me and:
The time for the first charge was -10 seconds (faded at 0:00)

The gap between the 1st and 2nd charge is 44.5 seconds (-0:10-0:34.5)
The gap between the 2nd and 3rd charge is around 1 minute and 30 seconds (0:34.5-2:04)
The gap between the 3rd and 4th final charge is about 3 minutes (2:04-5:03)

(average for 3 stacks 44.5+90+180/3= 104.8333 seconds!)

Now compared to the

2006 classic wow
1 Spider Mob is hitting him and:
The time it took to get the first charge was 2 seconds (0:28-0:30)

The gap between the 1st charge and 2nd charge is 4 seconds (0:30-0:34)
The gap between the 2nd and 3rd charge is 8 seconds (0:34-0:42)
The gap between the 3rd and 4th charge is 10 seconds (0:42-0:52)

(average for 3 stacks 4+8+10/3= Only 7.333 seconds)

As you can see the comparison is ridiculous and far from blizzlike

It should not take me all day to get a charge. Thats not how the game worked. If you want to change everything we may as well change seal twisting to use all ranks for seal of command but thats not the case since this never existed in 2006 so we should use what existed and have reckoning use its own spell batching no different to seal twisting, thank you Blizzard)

4 Likes

The only thing I forgot to factor in was the 10 and 12 second bubbles I used to heal so the average would be less than 105 seconds but still close to ridiculous. Blizzard please fix this. 1 mob gave more charges than 5 mobs in thesame time.

2 Likes

reckoning is the most overpowered pvp talent so i think this should be fixed asap, give them its own batching

3 Likes

Yep the batching was always working with reckoning in classic. Pretty stupid They nerf it when it was never nerfed in vanilla. I support this idea smallhead.

3 Likes

I support this too. Worked 2006 era.

3 Likes

Judging by those videos its true that classic reckoning works like 2006 on private servers with the sitting so paladin players will be tempted to go private servers. Jokes on blizzard for not making it 2006 blizzlike. What makes no sense is they change what they want giving twisting a pass but not reckoning. Totally agree this overpowered spell needs to be changed baxk. Because that’s how it worked. ITS like changing diamond flask for warriors and nerfing it in classic but guess what? They dont need diamond flask. They just hate us paladins.

3 Likes

3 self crits of reckoning And redoubt in 12 seconds in original 2006 classic 400ms batching is what we should have.

Not 3 self crits in 269 seconds at 10ms.

This needs fixing for Season of Mastery
Look how many times reckoning in original classic was able to proc in a short amount of time compared to 10ms reckoning we have now.
Why nerf reckoning to 10ms when we have a seal of command to seal of righteousness seal twisting that shouldn’t even exist? We are given a specific spell batching for seal twisting
but

Seal of command to
Seal of righteousness

Never existed in 2006, only seal of command and justice, light, wisdom or the crusader yet we have righteousness now.

At least remove righteousness seal twists and add reckoning it’s own spell batching to imitate 2006 reckoning procs.

Reckoning procs were proccing perfectly prior to the hand of justice macro nerf. Blizzard we know you can separate the hand of justice from reckoning with its own reckoning specific spell batching. Please fix it for Seasons of Mastery. Reckoning was working fine all the way in 2019 until hand of justice was nerfed because of this macro.

The very thing that ruined and caused reckoning to be nerfed. I noticed after this was changed reckoning was also ruined. It isn’t fair. It’s not the trinket and reckoning benefits spell batching.

If that stupid macro for the hand of justice never existed, reckoning would still be working as of today fine.

The fix:
It hasn’t been separated from reckoning and the only way to fix this redoubt/Reckoning problem so it’s identical to original 2006 classic is to give reckoning and redoubt the exact same treatment you have seal twisting so it can be used at 400ms and not 10ms.

After all of those hits with all of the mobs on the right side of the video in 2021 classic we are getting only 3 redoubt procs or reckoning crits from forced sits. This is a joke. Forced sits were not bugs and were used and worked in classic. Saying they are a bug is like saying seal twisting is a bug and shouldn’t exist. Both worked through spell batching and need spell batching to work.

On the left side 2006 classic you can see how much more procs proc in such a short period of time.

We love you Blizzard and hope you fix reckoning and redoubt by adding a 400ms for them specifically and not every spell.

It took over 4.5 minutes of the 2021 (right sided) video to get 3 self crits and in the 2006 classic (left side) it took a paladin with 1 spider mob 12 seconds to get 3 procs of redoubt/Reckoning self crits

What does that say?

Also a crit in the right side 2021 video happened at 0 seconds? Smallhead said? Even if it happened we don’t include it?

Why? Because the first self crit in both videos start at almost thesame time 30-34 seconds

At 0:30 seconds in first crit in 2006
At 0:34 seconds is first crit in 2021

He has literally timed the 2021 and 2006 first crit charges so close together so both paladins get the first crit at 30-34 seconds in each of their videos

2006 classic (left side)
30 to 42 seconds and 3 self crits
So it’s 3 charges in 12 seconds at 400ms

2021 classic (right side)
34 to 303 seconds gave 3 self crits
So it’s 3 charges in 269 seconds at 10ms

If this isn’t fixed then reckoning is not working as intended since it is depowered compared in 2006. In other words you’ve triple nerfed it in classic. And we all know reckoning wasnt triple nerfed until TBC.

Please reply blizzard :frowning:
Thank you :slight_smile:

1 Like

Smallhead let me know if this gets fixed thanks

Bump because this still isn’t fixed and paladins aren’t as fun anymore.

Blizzard should implement an artificial batching toggle for every spell, it can be done like how they did with seal twisting, why are we changing the game from 1.12 for paladins when we arent changing the lifedrain to match all lifedrains that scale at 100%, why arent we nerfing diamond flask scale at 1.12 to work like tbc, why arent we nerfing elemental mastery in 1.12 so its like tbc, why arent we nerfing binary dots for priests and locks in 1.12 and nerfing them to partials in tbc? Think about it..

why arent we changing wrath of cenarius to work like in prepatch then for classic?

Paladins lose a weapon twist nightfall with no internal cooldowns on their second weapon when using spell batching, YOU NERF US BY 2000 DAMAGE on our reckoning bomb. Nightfall can be stacked with untamed blade or ashbringers proc, or sulfuras’s proc with a weapon swap.

Youre being selective. Its not fair blizzard. You cant choose to get rid of some and keep others. You have to apply it to all. I dont say remove the classic spells and change them to tbc spells. I say give us the CHOICE to use spell batching or artificial batching spells, and if a player has it toggled off it wont affect him, but it will at least give us the chance to play the game how we like, it can still work on players when items can break polymorph but the chance of a 10ms player losing to a 400ms player is lower. Allow us to set each individual spell to 400ms. Its the cost isnt it? What about if we the players fund it? If we cant play the game on 1.12, then no one should and all other classes should be nerfed. But that isnt classic anymore. Thats TBC. So I say give the option for us to use spell batching, even if we cant use it on toggled off players, we can still use it in pve to increase our dps, or in pvp to stack like 1.12. I mean if the patch is past 1.12, then why are we still basing neretzek the blood drinker that scaled in 1.9 through to 1.11 at 0% when it was 100%? If youre going around CHANGING the game. You should just give us the option in an interface to set every spell in the game with batching or not.

Its only fair that ret paladins get back their 1.12 spell batching. You have given us a spell like seal of command seal twisting to seal of righteousness seal twisting that NEVER EXISTED in the game. And ontop of that youve given us a 400 ms artificial batching.

We lose a ton of dps against shadowpriests, dps in pve, and dps on our reckoning bomb by losing spell batching, 2 heals like a holy shock and flash of light crit, and in the original game WARLOCKS were able to use spell batching to have a secondary pets buff while using demon sacrifice. That was 1.12 and worked all the way through tbc

https: //www. ownedcore. com/forums/world-of-warcraft/world-of-warcraft-exploits/163343-warlock-demonic-sacrifice-trick.html

At least give us the option and if the players use it and toggle it then the players without it will be faster and always outperform the slower 400ms players BUT the 400ms players can still even if many items or spells dont work anymore to break poly, can still use it on very slow players OR players with the toggle on, why would players toggle spell batching on?

because some mages want to hit harder

The best thing for blizzard to do is give more flexibility in the game, you think it will break or separate the pvp? It wont because the 10ms players will still always get the first polymorph

Why not make SEPARATE SERVERS that allow the option and test and see if it works out?

I will fund this

I get it, there are alot of things bad about spell batching, BUT give us the option to turn it off, a mage that turns it off will not be affected by a spell batching toggled player using hellfire or goblin sapper or demonic rune or dark rune to break it. But at thesame time the mage wont be able to benefit from the good parts of spell batching like the t2 frostbolt.

Its not going to make the mage any weaker than they are now at 10ms. Its only going to make them miss out on doing more damage and tempt them into using it. Allow players to see who has the toggle on or off. If there are players with it off, you can set an option to turn off all artificial batched spells off when fighting a player with it off. If there is a player with it off you can set it to remain on, or if there is a player with it on, you can set it to copy and be on.

Or maybe only allow spell batching to be used in non pvp situations. If everything else fails. I mean thats extreme but it still allows paladins to use it in pve. Stacking from mobs and using it in raids to increase their dps. But I dont agree with that. You have overpowered things that are based on 1.12 that remain in the game. Dont nerf the characters to be based on tbc. Come on. Youre going to nerf warriors, warlocks, priests, shamans and everyone?

Just allow more flexibility. We should be allowed to use artificial batching. If the players who dont like it dont want to use it. They can untoggle it. Its like the players you gave the option to do heroics and normal dungeons. That sort of flexibility. The hardcores and the casuals.

they also need to clean away all the WRATH version DR’s on parry and dodge that did not exist in TBC or Vanilla.

There is an artificial cap on dodge and parry haste. No such limit existed in Vanilla.

1 Like