Give Reckoning/Redoubt their own Batching like Seal Twisting

Left side of video is original 2006 Classic WoW/Right side of video is 2021 1.13.7 Classic WoW
Left side of video 0:30/Right side of video 0:00 redoubt (click more to read for reckoning/redoubt)
Left side of video 0:34/Right side of video 0:34 redoubt (34.5 seconds right side)
Left side of video 0:42/Right side of video 2:04 redoubt
Left side of video 0:52/Right side of video 5:03 redoubt

Left side of video 2:40 was first charge
Left side of video 2:56 was second charge
Left side of video 2:58 was third charge
Left side of video 3:00 was fourth final charge

Starting at 2nd charge
Left side of video 4:09
Left side of video 4:12
Left side of video 4:14

5 mobs against 1 mob in first part
5 mobs against against 2 mobs in the second part
Final part of the right video is a test to see if it procced on one mob compared to the spider mob

As a result it was terrible and the verdict is that reckoning should have its own spell specific spell batching just like seal twisting since it is more important than seal twisting and its charge stacking was used in the entirety of classic.

Original videos


It’s literally possible now for them to correct this after they fixed seal twisting, sure why not


It’s not fair how they fix seal twisting, But the hand of justices fix ruins reckoning. And don’t get reckoning fixed Only seal twists… I think it should have its own spell batching as well. I would support this fix for sure!


nice evidance smallhead, i hope blizzard gets this storted our for paladins too.


true so far charging is not currently correct


Fingers Crossed they fix


Things I noticed in the 1.13.7 patch

The sit speed looked slower
But worst of all, I had 5 mobs hitting me and I averaged 105 seconds to get a charge, when 1 mob hit the 2006 player and it averaged over 7 seconds.
If you include the second paladin in 2006, Murtaugh, he had 2 orc mobs hitting him and averaged 3.3 seconds for 3 stacks! So if there had been 5 mobs hitting him, he would probably of averaged 2 seconds compared to my 105 seconds it took me to get a stack)

As you can see redoubt fades off at 0 seconds

Which means it didnt start at 0 seconds, it started at
-10 seconds in the video time when I got the first charge

2021 current classic wow
5 Stockade Mobs are hitting me and:
The time for the first charge was -10 seconds (faded at 0:00)

The gap between the 1st and 2nd charge is 44.5 seconds (-0:10-0:34.5)
The gap between the 2nd and 3rd charge is around 1 minute and 30 seconds (0:34.5-2:04)
The gap between the 3rd and 4th final charge is about 3 minutes (2:04-5:03)

(average for 3 stacks 44.5+90+180/3= 104.8333 seconds!)

Now compared to the

2006 classic wow
1 Spider Mob is hitting him and:
The time it took to get the first charge was 2 seconds (0:28-0:30)

The gap between the 1st charge and 2nd charge is 4 seconds (0:30-0:34)
The gap between the 2nd and 3rd charge is 8 seconds (0:34-0:42)
The gap between the 3rd and 4th charge is 10 seconds (0:42-0:52)

(average for 3 stacks 4+8+10/3= Only 7.333 seconds)

As you can see the comparison is ridiculous and far from blizzlike

It should not take me all day to get a charge. Thats not how the game worked. If you want to change everything we may as well change seal twisting to use all ranks for seal of command but thats not the case since this never existed in 2006 so we should use what existed and have reckoning use its own spell batching no different to seal twisting, thank you Blizzard)


The only thing I forgot to factor in was the 10 and 12 second bubbles I used to heal so the average would be less than 105 seconds but still close to ridiculous. Blizzard please fix this. 1 mob gave more charges than 5 mobs in thesame time.


reckoning is the most overpowered pvp talent so i think this should be fixed asap, give them its own batching


Yep the batching was always working with reckoning in classic. Pretty stupid They nerf it when it was never nerfed in vanilla. I support this idea smallhead.


I support this too. Worked 2006 era.


Judging by those videos its true that classic reckoning works like 2006 on private servers with the sitting so paladin players will be tempted to go private servers. Jokes on blizzard for not making it 2006 blizzlike. What makes no sense is they change what they want giving twisting a pass but not reckoning. Totally agree this overpowered spell needs to be changed baxk. Because that’s how it worked. ITS like changing diamond flask for warriors and nerfing it in classic but guess what? They dont need diamond flask. They just hate us paladins.


3 self crits of reckoning And redoubt in 12 seconds in original 2006 classic 400ms batching is what we should have.

Not 3 self crits in 269 seconds at 10ms.

This needs fixing for Season of Mastery
Look how many times reckoning in original classic was able to proc in a short amount of time compared to 10ms reckoning we have now.
Why nerf reckoning to 10ms when we have a seal of command to seal of righteousness seal twisting that shouldn’t even exist? We are given a specific spell batching for seal twisting

Seal of command to
Seal of righteousness

Never existed in 2006, only seal of command and justice, light, wisdom or the crusader yet we have righteousness now.

At least remove righteousness seal twists and add reckoning it’s own spell batching to imitate 2006 reckoning procs.

Reckoning procs were proccing perfectly prior to the hand of justice macro nerf. Blizzard we know you can separate the hand of justice from reckoning with its own reckoning specific spell batching. Please fix it for Seasons of Mastery. Reckoning was working fine all the way in 2019 until hand of justice was nerfed because of this macro.

The very thing that ruined and caused reckoning to be nerfed. I noticed after this was changed reckoning was also ruined. It isn’t fair. It’s not the trinket and reckoning benefits spell batching.

If that stupid macro for the hand of justice never existed, reckoning would still be working as of today fine.

The fix:
It hasn’t been separated from reckoning and the only way to fix this redoubt/Reckoning problem so it’s identical to original 2006 classic is to give reckoning and redoubt the exact same treatment you have seal twisting so it can be used at 400ms and not 10ms.

After all of those hits with all of the mobs on the right side of the video in 2021 classic we are getting only 3 redoubt procs or reckoning crits from forced sits. This is a joke. Forced sits were not bugs and were used and worked in classic. Saying they are a bug is like saying seal twisting is a bug and shouldn’t exist. Both worked through spell batching and need spell batching to work.

On the left side 2006 classic you can see how much more procs proc in such a short period of time.

We love you Blizzard and hope you fix reckoning and redoubt by adding a 400ms for them specifically and not every spell.

It took over 4.5 minutes of the 2021 (right sided) video to get 3 self crits and in the 2006 classic (left side) it took a paladin with 1 spider mob 12 seconds to get 3 procs of redoubt/Reckoning self crits

What does that say?

Also a crit in the right side 2021 video happened at 0 seconds? Smallhead said? Even if it happened we don’t include it?

Why? Because the first self crit in both videos start at almost thesame time 30-34 seconds

At 0:30 seconds in first crit in 2006
At 0:34 seconds is first crit in 2021

He has literally timed the 2021 and 2006 first crit charges so close together so both paladins get the first crit at 30-34 seconds in each of their videos

2006 classic (left side)
30 to 42 seconds and 3 self crits
So it’s 3 charges in 12 seconds at 400ms

2021 classic (right side)
34 to 303 seconds gave 3 self crits
So it’s 3 charges in 269 seconds at 10ms

If this isn’t fixed then reckoning is not working as intended since it is depowered compared in 2006. In other words you’ve triple nerfed it in classic. And we all know reckoning wasnt triple nerfed until TBC.

Please reply blizzard :frowning:
Thank you :slight_smile:

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Smallhead let me know if this gets fixed thanks