How do I open and stay connected on a DH tank or guardian druid and not get peeled off? I traded maneuverability for shiv. IF I actually am going to dedicate an opener and not just try to slow.
when do I kidney? do I save kidney for when im cc’ed pop trinket and kidney? do I go full cheap into kidney and dedicate blind sap for a 2nd opener when dr is
off?
Save kidney +trinket for when they pop a cc +sprint or something?
assume EFC is alone overextended or only has 1 heal with them etc.
should I drop shiv for maneuverability whenever we have a MS warrior?
What cc do I trinket, and for what reason? DH fear/incap? druid stun/incap?
please any tips would be appreciated, thanks; double thanks
Here’s what I open with:
Sap nearby healer or whoever.
Open on EFC: Cheap Shot, Garrote, Rupture, MfD, Kidney, Mut, Mut, TB, Envenom
My guess is you’ll probably get CCd not long after that Kidney and you’ll only be able to pull this rotation off if the EFC isn’t surrounded by his team.
Break CC and either A. Shadow step or Sprint to catch back up to EFC and continue to harass them or B. Vanish/Catch a restealth, cut the EFC off and open on them again.
I don’t run with Maneuverability or Shiv because more then likely I’m running Wound Poison because my team needs a MS and I like having Creeping Venom, System Shock (to make up for not running deadly poison) and Smoke Bomb for pretty much all situations.
EFC’s are going to get away, your job is to just stall them as long as possible. If they have a lot of people with them just sap and blind, watch out for aoe and give your team time to catch up to them.
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thanks for replay! yeah, I think you’re right that you will eventually get peeled.
I think it’s true that it would help to be maybe at least 1step ahead of EFC so anticipating the peel and getting a restealth really might be the best thing to do in a lot of situations.
because realistically if they send 2 heals with EFC you’re not doing anything. even 1 Heal you might not have the cc chain alone to go on EFC.
maybe its a matter of positioning and reading the enemy team
Sometimes there is opportunity to take the efc’s escort from him. 1 maybe 2 healers. A sap and a blind forces trinkets. Resap, and start stun rotation and see if efc stays back or runs off without the healers. This is good position for your team at this point.
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Redbeard described the situation perfectly.
In MOP and WOD Rogues could lock up and kill an EFC easily. If he wasn’t running the flag himself. Something Rogues did well back then.
With Legion came DH and mobility for everyone. It’s very difficult to kill an EFC now Solo. The best we can do is slow him until help arrives. Sometimes just a couple of saps on a lone EFC will slow him enough until help can arrive.
Something I’ve done since Legion is identify where the EFC is leaving the base, middle, ramp, or graveyard. I know people can see it themselves but in random bg’s it helps get people focused on the EFC.
It’s better not to die on a losing proposition so you’ll be the one leading an assault on the FR if the EFC couldn’t be stopped in mid.
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Never open with cheap. Either garrote or kidney. Usually kidney. Then garrote, rupture, toxic blade, mut to five points and envenom. System shock will slow fc’s movement speed by 90%. Anticipate when the fc will jump if it’s a dh and sprint ahead. If you do get slowed/peeled, you have to play it by the situation as to whether to use cloak/trinket/evasion/vanish, but as long as you stay within throwing range, just keep throwing at fc and maintain crippling poison until you can step or sprint to them and re kidney. A lot of the time you will just be slowing the fc until your O team arrives, so be proactive and cc the fc’s escort while mauntaining crippling poison and system shock.
I don’t understand why you never open with cheap shot? worst thing that could happen is they trinket, so I MfD + Kidney
If you never open up with Cheap Shot, then when do you use Cheap Shot? Its an ability you use from stealth, so it has to be done in the opener. I mean are people wasting a vanish in the middle of a fight to get off a Cheap Shot lol or Is Cheap Shot just a useless ability?
I cant wrap my head around this comment.
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Good question. I’m looking forward to a rationale as well.
However I do see the value of opening with Garrote if the EFC is a Mage. They can Blink out of stuns unless you use Garrote to silence them. Then you can hastily apply your bleeds and poisons and hope it’s enough to slow them down.
Yeah but in rated BG’s let be honest, when is a mage going to carry the flag?
Kidney is the longest lasting stun and less expensive than cheap. You get the most out of everything you are trying to do by opening with kidney. If mfd is on cool down and you have to use cheap, then do it. Otherwise you usually cheap with subterfuge on other targets, for example, healers or dps escorting the fc, if you can’t sap or blind or there are too many.
And if you have to vanish to get a restun, in certain situations, then that’s exactly what you’d do after opening with kidney.
Ok, I guess that makes a little sense. In the rotation I put above Im going straight from cheap shot, garrote, rupture, straight into the kidney. I am successfully getting 2 stuns off on the EFC stalling them longer then you would opening with a kidney.
The fc is not going to trinket your kidney if it’s just you slowing. However, because you opened with kidney you are going to be able to pump a lot more dmg in to him, affecting the dynamic of their team (ie forcing healers or others out of team fight to try and peel you) and with crippling and system shock I almost never have to use anything but kidney, repeatedly to slow and pressure their fc. But you can also open with garrote, rupture, toxic etc, then kidney without mfd and force them to eat that dmg and use mfd for a double envenom, even lined up with a 2 second delay to maximize system shock. It depends on who is close, and how many jumps or escapes the fc has.
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In BFA two things are going to happen to a Rogue trying to do an expertly choreographed rotation on an experienced (any of 4-5 strong classes/specs) EFC. The EFC will be running across Mid after escaping and/or you will be dead.
All it takes is one CC which everyone has now and your whole plan is shutdown.
Blizzard has slowed combat in BFA and one of the results is making it easier for an EFC to survive and escape.
Personally I always use either Sap or Cheap Shot as an opening. I’ve tried many many different openings and they work the best for me.
Of course there are exceptions. Even a poorly geared, underpowered, Subtlety Rogue can Solo an EFC. But most times it takes a team.
I have often seen 2 Rogues (1 a Sub) shutdown and kill a poorly guarded EFC. Most times there is only 1 Rogue and his job is to slow until a help arrives. With mobility for everyone now it takes a team to stop and kill the EFC in most cases. Rogue can still play a big part but not like it was years ago.
Edit gain sorry:
I just came off getting exalted (last month or so) with Warsong on this Rogue. It was frustrating as hell and I learned a lot about stopping EFC’s in BFA. It was not fun, the Alliance were no pushovers and the EFC’s knew what they were doing. For a “try hard” Rogue in random BG’s it was great learning experience.
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