Seriously. What was the plan here? Give most classes an aoe cap but leave fire mages and boomkins uncapped creating the situation where the entire meta in m+ is fire mage/boomkin/doesn’tmatter
What is wrong with you devs?
Why was this not addressed with 9.0.5? Are you incompetent or what?
It actually blows my mind that this wasn’t addressed even though they went around a second time to make some things capped.
What’s this “true aoe” thing they mentioned when defending the caps? I understand split cleave vs cleave but to me, aoe is aoe.
We all aoe in dungeons. It’s SO weird dude. Either cap all of us or none of us, otherwise the obvious happens: only the uncapped float to the top.
Or at the very least make it the same for all classes
Shaman is actually one of the classes that benefitted the most from the cap because Chain Lightning has always been capped.
They don’t want to admit the AoE cap was a bad idea that didn’t really accomplish anything useful.
It took years for the universally hated GCD changes to be partially (very partially) reverted.
im genuinly curious where are you seeing uncapped aoe being used to its potential? im talking in your own experience. personally, theres only a couple places where uncapped aoe comes into play. the room before the final boss in HOA for example. ill have double pack pulls in dungeons and outlaw rogue blows me out of the water. over the course of the entire dungeon, every spec i’ve ran with can compete with my overall dps. i just dont see the issue in 15’s and under.
The AoE cap isn’t what caused this. There’s barely anywhere that uncapped AoE makes a difference in M+, unless something is different above 15s that I don’t know about.
Fire mages don’t even need an AoE cap. Just cap combustion spread and they’d be gimped
The aoe cap is as dumb as a sack of devs who thought it was a good idea.
exactly. to me, the main factors are: high burst damage, and utility. take feral for example. feral doesnt bring treants. thats a huge utility boomie brings. mage brings slows and aoe stun. hunter brings roots. what does a warlock bring? genuinely asking because i dont know. what does ret palidon bring? bop and such? id rather have aoe stuns and slows. heck, id take a shaman for its elemental.
Its not that uncommon to hit the aoe cap (set at 5 for most abilities), it happens nearly any time you double pull, which is common in high keys to make the timer.
I mean just take SD as an example, theres lots of pulls >5
Starting double pull
The big devourer pack pull before the boss
The double caster pack pull after 1st boss
The overseer/caster room/urn pull before the bridge
The researcher/fury/doubt/ghoul double pulls in the circle
Huntsman pull after 3rd boss
Nearly all the gauntlet pulls
Last pull before kaal
Its probably half or more of the pulls if youre playing efficiently.
mages are op because they have 1 minute combust. short cd, high burst windows is king in mythic plus. add the fact mages have multiple ways to control mobs and its the perfect spec for mythic plus.
People saw Unholy DKs last expansion and were like “yeah that shouldn’t exist.”
And Blizzard decided to try giving other classes niches not by giving them the niches but by taking away everyone else’s.
Fire Mage and Boomkin are outliers because they’re the specs that didn’t get castrated by this crappy decision that literally everyone knew was bad.
It hasn’t really helped it, either.
It’s true that Mages and Boomkins have more of a 20 target cap than the 5 target cap that some other specs have their main AOE spells. But Mages and Boomkins are also just tuned really high, even on five targets. And they bring Time Warp and Battle Rez, among other things.
Don’t think Combustion spreads anything. Phoenix Flames spreads Ignite to up to 8 targets, but Ignite isn’t so large of a portion of M+ trash damage.
Yes this is the other reason mage and boomkin are so popular, they also bring critical utility (e.g. lust and bres).
Unholy DK is also very strong in M+ and in nearly all MDI comps for the same reasons (uncapped aoe, strong 1m burst CDs with dark transformations/apocalypse, strong big CD with army, AMZ, bres, grip).
Most classes actually have a good place in M+, MM hunters can replace boomie or mage, WW/rogue is often taken instead of boomie as well. shamans can replace boomie or mage, and make fine healers too (though they arent min/max meta for mdi), pal is a meta healer and is totally fine for tanking most anything up to about +20.
Honestly the only classes that suffer from for all specs are war and warlock, and its mainly because war tanks were overnerfed, and while both have fine dps they dont have critical utility like other classes. Theres no clear reason to bring a dps war instead of a DK for instance, or a lock instead of a mage or hunter or boomie.
Yeah it’s dumb and it didn’t help balance M+ in the slightest just made legacy content a PitA
AoE and GCD changes were unasked for and unnecessary.
The sole reason for these changes was to slow down player consumption of content.
Yet another case of board room balancing.
They used to make changes based on balance, bug fixes, or fun.
Now they do it to extend playtime and increase services sold.
You are literally posting on a class that has had aoe capped abilities since tbc. M+ still takes about 20-40 minutes per key. Same as Legion and BFA.
We used to call that “cleave damage” and it was distinct from true aoe.
My comment was directed at more than just m+.
GCD and AOE hit everything.
Reminder that the aoe cap still exists and it shouldn’t.