Get an outside organisation to fix/audit your community relations

I was just reading a forum post where a returning player expressed that they found it really difficult to navigate achievement related unlocks for certain things. I read there post and thought, you know that’s reasonable. The achievement area is a bit of a mess. For many of us in the know, we might suggest a helpful add-on (which someone did) but the underlying point was one about unintuitive systems, as far as I could discern. One of your Blue posts asked for some clarity - which I thought odd since it seemed pretty obvious - but hey what is obvious to me, might not be obvious to them, so cool! So people gave their responses.

Then an MVP responds, and I’m going to be straight forward on this - I have started to groan when I see green print. I do so because I generally find your MVP’s rude, and condescending. Indeed, to paraphrase they stated that understanding unlocking flying is easy and they didn’t understand why the poster they referred to shouldn’t find that easy…seems small doesn’t it…it shouldn’t.

My background is education, I’ve worked in both High School and Higher Education. None of us know what is easy or not for someone else, until we show some empathy and tease their problem out - this is a skill, it needs to be learned. It has been, in my experience something that Blizzard sucks at, seriously, as a whole, you lot are terrible. I have encountered it a lot in computer programming, so I wonder if there is something in that with why it is such an issue in the online gaming industry? However, in people that are community relations, MVP (Most VALUED players), or Blizzard execs - how does that work?

The example I gave about the most recent thread I read is but one, and possibly the least offensive I could mention. Personally I think you should scrap the MVP thing altogether - all your players are valued, they all pay a sub - none of them should be more valued than others. Furthermore, if you are going to have them, and you are going to offer them a position of privilege, then that means they in someway represent your company. Not as much as a Blue poster, I’ll give you, but that ought not to matter.

Have you trained them in customer relations? If no, then pick up your game, stop with the amateur show. If you have - pick up your game, I can’t be the only person that finds too many posts of the MVP’s derisive or condescending. Yes the ordinary poster can be those too - but the ordinary poster doesn’t have a position of privilege in this system. There is little impetus to hold people who have no connection to your company to account unless they threaten someone else’s well-being.

I believe though since watching your company’s public interactions since BC (but really in Wrath did the hype train hit me) that MVPs would be well-argued to say they are no worse, generally speaking, than someone like Lore being condescending or abusive, or your devs at Blizzcon publicly putting down the player base with “You don’t know what you want” or “Don’t you have phones” etc., to your CEO asking for whole swathes of staff to be sacked and then telling investors - we aren’t even sure if sacking those people was helpful (and it turning out that people needed to be re-employed, but not offering it to the ones you sacked first). Once is too much - but you seem to have a culture of sucking at empathy and communications.

I also sat on a board of directors for a university in Australia twice. When we had such strategic flaws that surfaced we understood that trying to resolve fundamentally broken parts of our organisation need outside intervention. If I remember our annual budget was a 1/4 billion dollars - so we thought it was more than worthwhile to get outside help in sorting out our problem. Most of the time that seemed to work. I wonder if it would work for you gang?

You have lost what - around 10 milllion subscribers since peak? Is that over 80% of your player base? That’s profoundly amazing - perhaps there is a Darwin Award for Business you could enter in? I realise the vast majority of those losses were through bad strategic decisions on your devs behalf. I get a sense over the years that this has something to do with that thing of living in a bubble - certainly your over-dependence on analytics is a flaw (although I understand the potential strengths it has too). Whatever your defensive though the numbers speak louder, don’t they? How many do you think get chipped away by your company’s poor communications and community relations?

So my suggestion to you is get an outside organisation to audit the entire history of WoW. Give them every forum that has ever existed, give them all your announcements, give them access to every staff communication - internally and externally etc. I know you know you suck at this because you are always promising to improve, but so rarely do you achieve that in tangible terms. Make sure they are from outside the gaming industry, because honestly, the industry has been showing how much it sucks especially so in the last year with the monetisation models you all seem to think is going to make you loyal customers. But that is another discussion for another page.

I really want WoW to get those numbers back. There is little in the way of reasoning that suggests that you can’t do that, however you keep chewing through good will faster than army ants do invading another colony. People want to give you their loyalty, I think the reception of the announcement to launch WoW Classic should be opening your eyes to that. Stop coming up with ways to betray that loyalty, so frequently, and consistently.

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I feel like MVP at this point is just a badge that says “You’ve been banned the least and gotten a lot of meaningless :heart:s, have some green!”

I’ve come to ignore them most of the time. Sometimes it feels like they’re overly contrarian for no reason, and I don’t see them help people as much as even they were probably expecting to.

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For the most part the mvp’s I’ve run into are arrogant and condescending. They seem to look down on most everyone and be on some sort of power Trip.

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Yes, I think so. However, if there are 2 million players out there, there will be many who don’t - they will never come to the forums, they will never watch a youtube video - and they shouldn’t have to. As I said the issue was about unintuitive systems.

Again I hear you - for you and me - easy. But even some of my guildies who are raiding will ask questions about things I thought straight forward. Designing intuitive systems is hard. Shaking off genuine inquiry along the lines of “You should be able to figure that out” without knowing a persons age, education level, language capacity etc is not only counter-productive, it’s stupid business practice.

I also hear you that about it being a badge - that’s what we call a position of privilege - yes? Any level of privilege comes with responsibility. Since Blizzard freely awards such privilege, they have responsibility for the consequences of those people’s actions.

Thanks for taking the time to respectfully discuss your position :slight_smile:

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Actually, most of the MVP’s are reasonable. The problem is that a small handful are so biased it taints the integrity of entire system.

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Mvps aren’t part of blizzard. It’s also well known by many how worthless many are.

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They remind me of the hall monitors from elementary school.

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Unfortunately, that has been my experience too. It’s a shame, because as I say I really want WoW to go back to to WotLK numbers - that felt so good (apart from Dalalag lol) I must admit I do get pretty reactive with MVP posts where I don’t necessarily with an ordinary poster. I could do better myself. But I’m not in a position of privilege in this case - certainly am in other parts of life.

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MVP’s are chosen by Blizzard. They have a special nameplate and text color that displays on their post. It is disingenuous to suggest they are not intended to represent the company in some matter.

They aren’t on the payroll, I think you are saying? They don’t have to be. A volunteer for a NFP (Not For Profit) isn’t on the payroll, but still represents the organisation, albeit in a much more minor way than say a paid officer of that org. Sporting clubs members aren’t on the payroll, indeed they may be paying - but if they misrepresent the club or hold it in a bad light - there are consequences for that.

As I said though - I think the system needs to be scrapped. It’s not a great idea to hold one persons sub as more important than another - even if it is in a seemingly harmless badge of honour title and font colour.

Tbh i just ignore green text now a days.

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You may be correct - that certainly hasn’t been my experience, and at least one other person so far. Nonetheless, I’ll take you at your word. That is still an issue for a company like Blizzard - I would hope. I think you got though that I was using it as a lead in to a much bigger issue the company has frequently owned as a real issue for them.

You have no evidence to back that claim up. You would have to prove that gameplay decisions were the vast majority of the reason versus how many people just grew out of it. And not I am not saying that gameplay decisions did not factor in, just that we do not know to what extent.

Addtionally, this is probably not that big of a concern since according to blizz themselves, the amount of people who visit the forums is very small. I am going to go out on a limb here and guess that MVPs being snarky does not play a major factor into the loss of subs. That is not to say their communications could not improve, they definitely can in my opinion but I suspect there is a low if almost non financial incentive to actually pay some outside party to audit it.

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I hear you the role is minor, but they still have a role, otherwise why have the system at all? As I have put, I think it should just be scrapped, it’s divisive. Again though, my MVP example was a lead in. It’s not the reason why I think Blizzard should get in outside help. I do think it is possibly a symptom, but I don’t have anywhere near enough data :stuck_out_tongue: Thanks for the discussion :slight_smile:

No one made this claim. Strawman.

The example merely was illustrative of a part of a bigger problem.

I’m pretty much sure I have watched Ion admit as much every-time he says “that was a wrong decision” Go on I dare you to line up all his videos and playing a drinking game about it.

Seriously though - you are absolutely correct. I am going of anecdotal evidence. I’m not employed by Blizzard, I do not in any way have a connection to them. I disgree though that it is not a problem for Blizzard - you do realise the MVP thing was a lead in to a larger discussion right about the company’s poor community relations and communication? Apologies in advance if I’m misreading you - my tummy is screaming at me for attention, but I wanted to respond with at least a “I hear you.” Cheers :slight_smile:

The evidence is declining subs combined with the philosophy of we are letting the designers create the game they would like to play, which has been mentioned a few times over the years.

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I know…It was a smartass response I gave. It just seemed silly to bring them up since Mvps are rarely ever antagonistic. I mean they often times seem like blizzard shills but that is a whole other topic.

Again though we have no idea why the massive loss was entirely do to that. Even with what we have for MMOs out there, not exactly like the genre is all that popular anymore, not in the era of battle royal games. Making the claim that the vast majority of 10 million was due to bad decisions is unfounded, one would need to provide evidence. Though I accept OPs correction on this statement.

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There is one MVP in particular who is often antagonistic. If you hear people saying that “MVP’s” are bad, biased or whatever, they’re thinking about that one guy.

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