even if you can use it anywhere you can mount (so, certain dungeons for example) it’s not going to change how you play, just like the rest of the tree. that’s why I roll my eyes when people say it’s a good example of a gameplay impacting tree
Agree, no doubt numerically and tuning-wise it’ll end up fine, provided there are no focus over-cap issues from this focus on KC and its branching effects, to which I still have my suspicions…
But thats not the point. Theres a grand total of 2 people I’ve seen that have shown genuine excitement for this tree. Its bland. Its uninspired. Its boring.
There are so many areas they could have gone with a pack leader theme, and what we end up with is a double down on KC interactions. Not impressive.
all of the ideas I’ve seen in any feedback thread for pack leader have been just as “boring and uninspired” though. people suggest a 3rd/2nd pet for BM/SV and it’s like…that doesn’t do anything. people suggest a random murder of crows dots and again…doesn’t do anything.
Mechanically, it might be fine. Numerically, it might be balanced.
The fantasy, though? Beyond having an extra pet pop out for 6 seconds when we use a cooldown, it sounds like most of it boils down to “your pet plays its attack animation more often” which, compared to things like raining hammers from the sky, summoning the Four Horsemen, and crapping thunderbolts with your attacks, seems a bit lacking.
When people hear the phrase “Pack Leader,” I guess they expect something a bit more than “well it’s still a Pack by the minimum standard of 2 or 3, dunno why you thought of any of the animals that frequently live in packs of 5-20.”
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yeah imagine if BM had a cooldown that summoned a bunch of pets. would be really cool. i personally would name it call of the wild. btw whats the visual for howl of the pack of vicious hunt look like?
i feel like this is because pack leader is such a generic name. some people expected a literal zoo and some consider their hunter + pet the pack.
there’s also the fact that it’s the only non-elf tree choice. so a lot of people are being very vocal and wanting it to be their exact version they expected.
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trust me, my hunter is not an elf either and I even made a few threads about how I wanted sentinel renamed but a lot of people disagreed.
since ruby adept got renamed I am really hoping sentinel does as well.
I had it in my head that it was Warden for the longest. Glad to see it’s Sentinel!
Pack leader inspires thoughts of, you know, commanding a pack.
As in, more abilities fitting that theme.
Integrate with SV for example? Just spitballing, but instead of a murder of crows, why not an active button press ability on an x?sec CD that has a bird from your stable drop an explosive for either flat damage or additonal effects for AoE.
Why not replace or add to bite windows with an effect named something like ‘leaders call’ where as your yell comes out from MB (5 stacks or something prevalent), another ability becomes available to press which calls 1/2/3 stable pets to attack the target from all angles, making bite windows fun to manage with a cool payoff.
Why not have an ability that summons a suitable pet from your stable to ambush your target for x% damage or a bleed, or a new poison when some criteria is met…
Integrate bombs and additional pets in some way, pheremone bomb is an obvious one to toy with, but you could replace shrapnel bomb with a different kind which has an aoe mist effect that brings more pets out of the stable briefly to attack, giving the feeling of your pets (more than 1) being right there with you
Give this spec a feeling like you are in control of a pack of creatures and a reason to expand the stable so you can pick and choose your formation, you know, things like that.
I don’t understand people merely being fine with “ok we can press MB and KC more because I press KC alot now”
And thats just spitballing, with proper preparation and thought theres so many cool ideas instead of this tree tbh
this all goes against the stated design goal of hero specs
SV is already nearing a 0 downtime spec with nearly every GCD filled 
stuffing in a bunch of extra abilities is entirely unnecessary. suggestions like these are also full of visual clutter for a melee DPS spec.
and I don’t understand how you don’t see how tons of new synergies and interactions aren’t exciting
Its not tons. It really isn’t. Stop inflating this boring design to more than it is purely because you like it lol
Oh I see, you’re more the type to blindly follow because you accept bland design than to actually have a real dialogue.
MB windows are long enough where an additonal button press which would equate to more dps is an easy thing to do, and having 1 or 2 extra abilities would definitely not hurt the spec.
It really is lol. It has synergy with survival’s entire gameplay kit. How is that not tons of synergy?
Synergy by pressing your KC more, and possibly MB more. Thats not tons of new synergy, thats amplifying an existing synergy. 
why are you so confident about something you clearly aren’t familiar with?
kill command resets give you tip of the spear stacks, fote cooldown (which gives you WFB cooldown), quick shot damage, and in this very tree it gives you free and empowered mongoose bites. kill command resets extend your spearhead as well 
even something entirely passive like howl gives you master marksman value and serrated shots value
pack coordination gives you coordinated assault synergy, which synergizes with cull the herd and frenzied tear/ferocious assault, which loops back to my previous point
wow would you look at that, it has synergy with all three major cooldown builds (fury of the eagle, coordinated assault, spearhead) and it has synergy with our entire main gameplay loop of MB WFB KC.
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why are you trying to rp as a sv expert lmao
Why are the 2 undercover alts trying so desperately to defend this tree to which the general consensus is that its garbage?
This bonus is negligible at best. The CDR is laughable in all cases except the mass pull circumstance
Oh now we like passive interactions do we?
You will not convince me that this is aome grand design lol, you are the only 2 people who are advocates. These synergies already exist and the amplification is not as meaningful as you are making it out to be, which really does boil down to “press KC more and stuff happens”
New synergy that did not exist before is amplying an “existing” synergy?
Mongoose Bite’s did not give you empowerments during Coordinated Assault. Now they do. This is new, not existing.
Kill Command did not give you free Mongoose Bites before. This is new, not existing.
Kill Command resets from pet basics did not exist before. When you Mongoose, your pet basics and can give you a reset. This is new, not existing.
Just because resets “exist” as a mechanic doesn’t mean new interactions are not new synergies. We did not have them previously. They interact with the kit in a new way.
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3 seconds of CDR every reset on a 45 second cooldown is not “laughable”
yes this is synergy and interaction. just because you don’t understand the spec doesn’t mean it’s not true
nobody said we didn’t? lol?
In another thread you seemed pretty set on passive interactions being very bad lmaolike the Rider tree. How the tune changes eh
Yeah just magically plodded my way to over 2k on this hunter alt randomly eh, maybe post on your hunter and I’ll take your opinion a bit more seriously, you probably think letting a full fote fly on ST is a dps gain lmao
I’m glad you feel accomplished by 2k. However, reaching 2k is not any type of evidence for knowing how to play a spec. For example:
you probably think letting a full fote fly on ST is a dps gain lmao
It is. Both the wowhead and icy-veins guides say to do this. The simcraft APL also does this.