Only really agree in terms of Blood. This ability was one part of the resource glut Frost and Unholy have both been experienced.
3 Likes
well, they kinda removed most of the issues. No 2nd erw, and hysteria was deleted. Abom limb is kinda worthless now. You dont even have the points to take it… tree is kinda dogwater
4 Likes
It’s firmly a design issue still. Requiring you to be in a static AoE ability in order to cleave your abilities is and always has felt like trash. End of story.
16 Likes
Awesome changes! This frees up so many points to grab more things, and so many defensive talents will make DKs across every spec and content very happy. Keep the good changes rolling, excited to see more of whats in store!
2 Likes
Get rid of cleaving strikes! It’s absolutely garbage gameplay. Just do it, buff Dots so we don’t even need to AoE strike for all I care.
I just can’t understand it. EVERY other class in the game as AoE abilities on demand, yet we need to stand in some non moving garbage let alone wasting a precious GCD before even doing said damage.
20 Likes
This kills the spec.
6 Likes
Let’s GO Blizzard. This is a great start, love it. Unholy will be so much more fluid. Looking forward to frost/blood and to the eventual final product.
Blood is in no way dependent on the bone shield from Abom lol
3 Likes
I’m concerned with frost losing the 2nd charge of empower rune weapon. Its on a 2 min cooldown so if we only have one charge, our 2nd pillar is going to feel pretty underwhelming,.
I do like this tho! * Cleaving Strikes now also retains bonus effects for being within your Death and Decay for 4 seconds when leaving its area.
my Thoughts so far on the spec tree are mostly okay but it is still bloated.
I would do the following:
-Make Improved Festering Strikes a 1 Point node
-Make Runic Mastery a 1 point node
-Make Unholy Blight Baseline and do not add a talent in its spot just extend the arrow down to the next talent like they did on the class tree from Ice Prison to Chains
-Swap Ebon Fever and Bursting Sores
-Combine Army of the Dead and Raise Abomination into a choice node.
4 Likes
That Cleaving Strikes change is definitely good, but man, am I feeling spoiled by playing Havoc DH this season instead of Frost DK. I can just do AoE damage, at any time, and with any amount of movement – without any setup, or limited charges, or it eating into cooldown duration. I’m hoping the Cleaving Strikes linger also means it lasts for 4 seconds after the D&D expires as well, so that you can now precast D&D instead of it having to eat into your cooldown durations.
9 Likes
Currently it does, and Cleaving Strikes says that “you retain its [Death and Decay’s] bonus effects for 4 sec.”, so you’ll retain Unholy Ground (5% haste) and the San’layn effects as well.
2 Likes
i like the changes mechanically, i just hope the damage output feels good after the balance passes.
Did they not already address this by removing the node of Empowered Rune Weapon and Rune of Hysteria? I feel like gutting abomination limb is overkill.
I personally hate how cleaving strikes is tied to death and decay still. I was expecting more from the dev note about how they were reworking DND and its function. Could me so much cooler thematically if it was an AOE around us that corrupted/froze the ground as we walked and dealt minor damage. Cleaving strikes could go onto other abilities.
Talent points feel strapped. Especially at the bottom of the tree. 2 points for pretty much a whole ton of garbage just to get some decent nodes.
Why is IBF Below kick? IBF should be at the top as there is a ton of raid fights this tier that didn’t need a kick. I Personally would orient the left side of the tree IBF > Runic Attenuation > Kick
On the unholy side of the general tree I would love it if DND Cleave + raise dead were swapped. For RP and character lore reasons I would love to not be able to take Raise dead in questing content
I love the change to AMZ and how it can absorb 10% more with a reduced cooldown, But this still doesn’t address the issue that BDK’s AMZ is just better than anything DPS DK provides.
The changes to abomb limb are fine, but for blood not giving marrowrend is going to be rough. For DPS dk’s it does hardly any DMG. Why not just include mass grip into the general tree since it won’t give procs anymore? BDK’s still will be the “superior” raid spec due to AMZ just existing in it’s current state.
with soul reaper being moved up the tree I feel like unless its tuned super badly Its going to be very hard to not take it and it doesn’t have good synergy with Oblit frost especially during pillar. Just some thing to think about.
Vestigial shell concern Is this going to be able to immune raid mechanics like current AMS? if so that just takes 3 points (2 of which are complete trash) to get something that will warp the game incredibly hard.
Just to emphasize the 2nd to last row is complete dogwater and needs to be looked at. all of those are so so so so bad.
6 Likes
The alternative would be nerfing Runic Corruption and Rime/Runic Empowerment.
Addressing the resource glut by kneecaping almost every generation source in the class tree was the smarter move imo. It sucks that Limb is just bad damage & grips now but I think the gating talent is more of an issue than having Limb as a utility-based capstone.
2 Likes
The general DK tree is gonna be so much better omg
for pvp its gonna be insane 
4 Likes
The cleaving strikes change solves one problem, but cleaving strikes itself has a multitude of problems. 4s safety net for being forced to move, or a tank moving is fine, but it doesn’t change that you have to spend DPS resources to enable AoE, AND spend a GCD, AND coordinate a very tight timing window that needs to be set up beforehand and makes it feel like any extraneous action (e.g. death gripping another mob to the pack) is painfully punished.
It’s just not an enjoyable design, and it feels like even the people on the pro-cleaving strikes side generally hold the opinion that “it’s not that terrible” rather than actually feeling truly positive about it. I’m not sure any other AoE method has felt as bad to deal with as cleaving strikes is.
If they’re going to insist on carrying forward it’s design, why not just bypass the timed and positional issues altogether?
Just make the cleaving effect a 15-20s buff that you gain # of stacks of when casting Death and Decay. That way it’s limited but doesn’t feel like your entire AoE capability is so absolutely terrible when any little thing is off.
9 Likes
Well I was close I said 5 seconds 
I would also accept this solution.
2 Likes
Can’t wait. I picked my dk back up for S4 pvp/pve and def will main it in war within. Already been messing around in the calculator trying to iron out a build.
I’m glad the RE/RC/Bone shield interaction is gone. Frost/UH had way too much resource gen with abom limb up. I legit have carpal tunnel when I use my cds in M+