This is what’s frustrating is that guy made a “blanket” statement about how things “are”; and then was countered because of your carries post, and then he essentially substantiates it all by whole “shoulder shrug” well carries are a part of the game.
I just wish when people start debating and talking about “skill” and how things are they actually included everything that’s meaningful and not just want they want to say / feel / think / argue for.
The whole “skill” argument falls apart when talking about carries, which SL has been designed to promote. I can’t see any other explanation for the system other than it is intentional. But, even if we remove that, here is a question that I would ask.
Which of the two players has a better chance of gear progression via RBGs?
Player A: A very skilled player without a social network that has to rely on LFGs to progress.
Player B: A good/competent player that has a solid group of people to regularly do RBGs together.
My point is that, after playing enough games to dial in the MMR, the MMR will pair people based on their combined skill + gear level. If their gear level is higher than their skill level, they will end up stuck at a CR where they won’t be progressing their gear any further from doing more PvP. If their skill level is higher than their gear level, they will end up at a CR where their gear does progress from PvP, and then they can move up in MMR/CR.
Because the PvP item economy is actually working properly for once, and ELO ratings aren’t super inflated this season, this ends up being a self-balancing problem.
See my question above. A single person’s skill can’t carry LFGs.
It’s an MMO, building social networks is a part of the game. This is intended by Blizzard because people with stronger in-game social bonds continue to sub longer. That is part of the engagement engine that supports the longterm health of the game.
If you’re a very skilled player that doesn’t want to build a social network, you can play 2v2 or 3v3 to progress.
I do think the honor gains from 2v2 and 3v3 need to be buffed slightly so those players can fill their vaults faster.
2v2 is extremely deflated right now. Getting rating in RBGs is trivial relative to getting it in 2v2, provided you have a steady group of competent people.
Do you people even read my text or just the title?
There i state that in Final Fantasy 14, one of the biggest MMOs out there (not the only one) gear dont matter to pvp and the game is a sucess.
That!
And now a sh!t tons of work on farming and upgrading to 197, otherwise not even competitive on any rated content (except VS yolo RBG team)
Yeah I did but FFXIV’s success doesn’t invalidate the importance of character progression. That’s a huge jump in logic there, “FF is a success and gear doesn’t matter in its PvP, therefore character progression isn’t important in an RPG.”
I think having a progression system within PVP keeps the PVP community alive and well, in fact I wished you could make PVP gear give a huge advantage over PVE gear and vice versa.
I agree and it used to. I wish we could go back to the MoP and WoD system. PvP Power/resilience weren’t exciting stats but they took up a secondary stat slot on your gear and only worked in PvP, so it made PvP and PvE gear of the same ilvl better in their respective fields.
We’re close to that system now with versatility and vendors again, they just need to remove vers from PvE gear, offer a % damage reduction increase from vers to the trinket set bonus, reduce the cost to upgrade honor gear to 7/7, and disable legendaries and soulbinds/conduits in PvP.
Go play a shooter or moba, this is an MMORPG and gear progression (whether it be through PvE or PvP) is part of the fun.
Yep, these were the best. WoD being my favourite. So good.
Wild how people think the gear gap isn’t very big this expansion LMAO. Gear matters quite a bit now, and it’s ignorant that it’s locked behind rating. PvP =/= PvE so stop treating it that way. WoD gearing was the absolute best.
Posts like this is what killed wow pvp before, scaling is bs. If you want a more even playing field then play dota 2.
Your skill is evident in what you accomplish in this game, not by how well you gank someone while herbing. What you’re really saying here is you’re stuck at 200 ilvl and you want my time and effort to count for nothing because you didn’t want to put in the sake work I did to get there.
No thanks.
Come on Ping? I play BGs daily and virtually every game has players in the 38k hp range, and the outlier 40k, meanwhile I am stuck at 198 ilvl 30k hp.
No matter my skill I am not going to be able to pressure the healer, kill the FC, or even peel for my healer as I will be deleted in quick! 14k Templars with 25% vers and d stance up is ridiculous!
Then add in Shaman, WW, Fire Mages, and Boomies convoke you cannot even get close without losing 60% hp.
I un-subbed, it sucks I spent a lot of time on this toon, but getting destroyed by gear is not fun.
I started playing GW2 again and so far this week been digging it, they have OP classes but everyone has the choice of the same gear for PvP builds.
Wait another week when people hit 30 renown open the last tiers and do even more damage with even higher gear lvls…
No! Thats you’re weak interpretation, let me clear it up for you…
You should have all the accomplishments you can get and that gear should be relevant in the content you got it in ~ Arena / RBG Rated Content…
That gear should be capped in Random Non rated Content.
Gear progression exists, that’s the point of honor gear and conquest gear.
However, once you earn conquest gear climbing the ladder becomes skill progression not gear progression and the most successful PvP expansions operated this way. It’s a simple precedent. PvE is for progression focused on player power, not PvP. It defies all competitive logic to turn PvP progression into PvE progression, not to mention has a negative impact on PvE if PvP progression follows the same path. Which is what’s happening right now.
Making conquest gear baseline like WoD and MoP increases accessibility which results in increased competition overall and a focus on player and composition skill (practice). The only “negative” is you will no longer have an advantage over other conquest geared players, no matter how big or small. Which for players who want PvP to be focused on skill progression find a positive. It’s honestly a PvE mentality to believe that a higher skilled players deserves more health, damage, and healing. PvP players from the past would understand that is fundamentally a problem.
Remember, there is still a system of progression but it should operate under fair competition. You will still have to progress into acquiring conquest gear and higher skilled players will earn conquest gear faster, there is still progression within the constraints of fair competition. However, there will be no uphill battle in terms of item level for anyone once they earn their gear. The uphill battle will be purely skill and cooperation. This is very important for casual players especially since there is no way to solo que for ranked and the LFG systems are down right awful and should not be expected upon every player and alt.
Never said it didn’t.
You couldn’t be further off from the truth here. The original PvP gearing system had players at higher ratings getting better gear, similar to how it is now. It’s weird that you associate increasing player power with PvE progression, it has nothing to do with PvE in this context and is actually core gameplay of RPG’s. PvP gearing also doesn’t hurt PvE, right now it actually is the best way to target slots that need upgraded because of the reduced drop rates.
I’ve always said that MoP and WoD did PvP gearing best and I’ve not played nearly as much for the last five years because of it. Then you talk about a “PvE mentality” and reference “PvP players from the past” like this isn’t an RPG and an almost identical system was there originally. I started in TBC, and you don’t know what “players of the past” would think of this system.
You act like everything you just said doesn’t apply to the current system. This is “fair competition”, you’re given the same game as anyone else and can get the same gear that they have. The grind is undeniably longer than it used to be and I’m not a fan of it either, but don’t sit there acting like it’s unfair and not what the old-heads dealt with.