Players and Blizzard alike need to stop comparing PvP and PvE. They are two different paths. Doing Mythic+15 is NOT the equivalent of getting 2400 rating. MoP and WoD had much better gearing for PvP. No rating locks made it more fair for anyone to get into it. Very few players are going to want to get all the way to 2400 for every season when they can just gear ten times faster with no rating requirements at all in Mythic+. Especially if they have alts.
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Hasn’t pvp gear always been rating gated? Like u needed 2k for shoulders back in the day etc
100%, there is no logical way to compare or equate them, and we all know PVP will have to take a back seat to PVE no matter what.
No, there were expansions where a few pieces were, but WoD did not have any rating gating. If you had a higher rating, you just earned conquest faster and so had the best gear faster. In the end though, even casuals could have the BiS PVP gear with a slow weekly conquest cap.
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It was, but then they removed in in 5.2 because:
So I can’t find anyplace in SL where they are actually gating gear behind rating. Am I missing something?
Not many details, but here:
And further down:
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Ya but even when they pushed that change it was only weapons.
All of cata and the first season of Mop it was gating only cosmetics.
You needed 2k rating to buy elite set, but elite set was only different cosmetically.
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People say that but did they (I’m not saying you, just in general) not hate Legion where gear did not really matter?
I know many of us here don’t want gear to be so important but I think it’s a huge mistake if you think there are people that don’t want to out gear others for advantages. Before I get hate I’m not one of them.
I think the SL system seems fine personally, would the WoD system be better? Maybe, but the game has changed over the years. I’m just happy I can gear for PvP by PvPing again.
Lets just hope that we won’t be ‘wasting’ our time in PVP, when we should be doing PVE for PVP gear, because better gear is obtained faster and easier.
Did you not look at any of the changes in SL?
Raiding had bonus rolls removed so less loot there.
M+ end of dungeon gear is reduced in item level and only drops one item per dungeon for the whole group. So no more M+ for endless loot. There is no TF/Corruption too!
The chest system was revamped, there is only one chest now for PvP/Raiding and M+ combined so we only get an item a week from chests. For M+ that’s the only way you get Mythic gear.
Both have less vers gear (a stat most if not all of us want for PvP) while all PvP gear has vers. Proper stats are more important than just item level.
PvP has gear with targeted stats, we can’t fill every slot with what’s BIS but that’s the same for all content and with legendary items we can maybe replace one of the ones that are not BIS stats. With the stat diminishing turns we might not even care about it though.
I’m not sure how long it takes to get conquest but it should be about as quick as someone gearing just through raids or just through M+. Someone doing everything can gear faster but the PvE gear is less important to us now.
The only thing that should really worry you is PvE raid trinkets as they seem broken OP again.
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I think rating gated is fine, but I don’t think the implementation is.
Having to be 2400+ to get the best gear from PVP doesn’t make sense, and frankly doesn’t really translate well from the source of the best PVE gear in terms of difficulty.
I think 2100 or 2200 would be a better cutoff for maximum item level PVP gear.
I mean really I’d just love to see the MoP or WoD systems back but I’d be more okay with rating locked gear if they handled it better.
I have been reading and following all the changes, yes.
But, when “gear is gear” and PVP gear has to be balanced against PVE gearing; PVP gear will lose out every single time.
For example, they are pinning rated PVP gear to specific levels of M+. First of all, how do you determine what raid/M+ with the equivalent BG/Arena + rating? Second of all, over the course of a patch/season, M+'s get easier and easier, while at the same time, your opponents in PVP get stronger and stronger.
When “gear is gear”, PVP players take a back seat to PVE players. The 3 expansions that have had PVE and PVP gear be the same across both activities are: Vanilla, Legion and BfA. Its pretty safe to say, if you mostly PVP, those 3 expansions are the worst for PVP gearing.
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Yet it’s been a part of the game the entire time. Back in Wrath the pvp pop was at its actual peak easily 2x what was in MOP. Guess what, rating gated gear. People complained and they simply altered the gating to how much gear you got instead of quality.
This is an MMO not a MOBA or FPS game. Gear is going to matter and adding extra incentive to continue playing arena via rating gated gear is a decent carrot on a stick.
If you don’t want to work to progress your character through an expansion that lasts a few years you’re playing the wrong genere. I’m not going to hear any hollow arguments assuming moral high ground around the purity of PvP play either. Know why? If you’re really that good gear doesn’t matter that much after a fairly early point in the game, and if you like pvp you’ll play, and guess what? Get gear.
I nearly got 2k in 2’s in MOP on a monk at a better than 50 ilvl disadvantage, because I was playing with a godly priest, but the fact remains that a casual like me could make a massive gear disadvantage work with a little smart play.
Stop whining kid.
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The only way you win with a gear disadvantage is with a skill advantage.
This is exactly why rating locks were removed. Because they create a wall that players cannot pass.
You will not get 2400 when everyone at that rating has Max ILvL gear that outclasses yours, unless you are a 2700 Player.
So what then happens is folks have to turn to M+ and Raids to get gear instead. No longer is PvPing for gear a valid option.
Seeing how there is no PVP stats, PVE gearing is a valid option.
Another words, Rating locks make nothing change. We will still be forced to PVE for gear.
You use the MMO excuse. Well MMOs are supposed to have progession that grows over time invested. Having a higher rating has nothing to do with time invested. You could do 1000 arenas a month and never hit 2400, meanwhile not progressing.
PVP does not work like PVE period, end of discussion. The progression system in WOD and MOP was fine. More conquest (weekly box gear starting at higher ilvl)
The rating locks, only existed in Wrath and as you stated they were quickly removed, as it was a bad system.
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the issue isnt gear mattering, i like templates but i see why alot of people dont
the issue is gear being locked behind rating walls
there should be conquest>honor>>>>pve gear in that order of how effective it should be in pvp
people that do rated stuff SHOULD have a gear advantage over honor geared players
the issue is they want multiple tiers akin to normal/heroic/mythic raiding which is just stupid
found the other boomer
im one of the players that would benefit the most from having the highest ilevel gear at 2400
the issue is for the players that arent in that situation
mop/wod didnt have that in the game and pvp was just fine and had plenty of participation
again, the issue isnt gear mattering, its pve gear/rated bracketed gear
you can actually lose games because of 1%-5% differences in items
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It’s annoying watching them always resort to the “muh rpg” garbage, and then saying if you’re really that good gear doesn’t matter. So just get gear, lmao. Then he goes on to talk about how he almost got 2k by playing with an admittedly “godly priest”, impressive. Just go find partners much better than you, and get gear. xd Boomer logic.
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That’s a nice anecdote from 7 years ago.
mmkay…
ooph
womp womp
This is not true. Rating locks were in place from when arena first came out in BC through Cata. There was no problem with it. You got your wep at 1850, etc.
Blizzard has elected to move rated PvP away from being a mini game with its own special gear and into being one of the 3 forms of endgame content (m+ raid and rated pvp). Gear matters and gear is awarded proportional to your rating achieved in the arena just as it is in PvE content. This is their philosophy and this is the way it is going to be for Shadowlands. Shadowlands comes out in approximately one month. That philosophy and the systems built in with it (the weekly cache and all the rewards tied in for the 3 paths) will not be modified for the duration of the expansion pack.
What you are asking for is not possible unless they add resil/pvp power back, which they have said about 9000 times they are not doing. These kinds of suggestions get us no where. We should be asking for realistic things that line up with their philosophy like making the versa set bonus increase with 4, 6, and 8 pieces of equipped PvP gear so we are encouraged to wear our gear and are forced to not use PvE trinkets. If we got say, 40% increased versa in PvP combat with 6 or 8 pieces of PvP gear on (mandatory 2 trinkets) we would mainly wear our PvP gear and we would only PvE for the remaining items (and not forced to).
Asking for them to just dump their entire system and philosophy they ran the last 2 xpacs based on is simply a colossal waste of energy. It is not going to happen.
Rating was diffrent in BC so not counting that.
Once again, like I cannot fathom why I constantly have to post the same thing. Cataclysm only weapons were rating locked, the Elite set was as well how it was strictly cosmetic.
The same kind of applied in wrath too, except there was I believe a better set bonus.
Also even when the rating locks were in it was NEVER all gear at XXXX, it was always these pieces at 1200, these at 1400, and shoulders at 2k weapon at 2200.
Want to lock weapons behind 2400, no problem. Want to lock all gear behind 2400 thats a terrible badly designed system.
As has already been linked, the devs themselves have stated that rating locked gear is bad for the game…
“Gear matters and gear is awarded proportional to your rating achieved in the arena just as it is in PvE content. This is their philosophy and this is the way it is going to be for Shadowlands.”
Once again, despite what Ion mr Anti PVP, and Pro Raiding thinks, thats simply not how Arena Works. Its not a raid, it doesn’t work the same way AT all. its not even close to comparable.
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My thoughts on this tend to shift from one side to the next, but ultimately I think:
- This pvp gearing system is miles better than what we have in BFA.
- The biggest concern (Imo) we’re facing is raid trinkets being viable in pvp.
- The pvp trinket set bonus needs a much larger buff. The bonus should be revised to increase damage done to players, and reduce damage taken from players. This is easy to implement, and has no stat tax implications we may see down the road.
- We still don’t have enough information as to how the upgrade / progression system will work. That said, the range we’re looking at is 213 @ 1600 - 226 @ 2100 (potentially 2400, though we have seen a datamined 226 at 2100). If 2100 is the cap, rather than 2400, I think it’s a reasonable range for a gear ilvl progression. If this provides greater incentive for PvP’ers to engage in rated conquest, I think that’s great. Q’ing rated, particularly arena, can be a really rewarding and competitive experience if you can stick with it and you find some friends you legitimately enjoy playing with.
- If versatility ends up being a highly valuable stat for many classes in pve, PvE’rs may very well be required to pvp. If this is the case, it’s likely this system won’t last long.
- PvP set bonuses on armor would also be nice to have again, even if they’re not too huge. It always felt good to get that 2nd or 4th piece of gear. They don’t have to be class specific, as this would just add yet another layer of balancing blizzard would have to handle, but just nominal boosts to damage done or reductions to damage taken would be nice. Still, it’s likely this won’t happen, as blizzard seems set on homogenizing pvp gear with pve. Primary issue with that is the viability of versatility across the two elements of gameplay