You replace it when leveling, and each tier.
So yes, Dragonflight will have borrowed power. Nothing you can do to change that.
You are technically right but it’s kinda an argument made in bad faith.
Generally when people talk about borrowed power they mean skills and abilities linked to systems that are completely disabled with no clear connection to the next system of borrowed power.
Gear is replaced with other gear that has the same stats in larger quantity.
Also when people argue against borrowed power they aren’t generally against each and every small instance of it. They are against having class’s / specs that just feel incomplete or broken without those systems.
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Tier gear is NOT the borrowed power people hate so much…
The borrowed power people hate is the one that gives an ability, an overpowered ability, one that your entire class/spec is designed around having and cannot function to normal capacity without.
The expansion/patch ability is so hated because before and after you have this ability your class/spec is in an incomplete unplayable state
What people want is not to have their classes/specs built AFTER the flashy borrowed power op system…they want their class/spec designed to be BASELINE functional and complete with something minor(like gear as it used to be) as just the icing on the cake…not the powe rbeing the cake batter and class/spec design sprinkled on top
it’s so jarring to have classes/specs ripped apart and having to be redesigned each exp just to work around whatever stupid one exp/patch power they decide will be the trunk of the tree.
I want my class/spec to be FULLY functional baseline, no fancy temporary powers needed or wanted to complete it.
Imagine the time saved and where it can be invested if they didnt have to reinvent the wheel with specs each exp because they dont havea temp power ripped out which they made to be the spine that held the spec together…
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if we loose the covenant abilities the classes will feel so broken imo.
a lot of issues with Guardian Druids for example is “its boring” but Convoke adds the little thing that it needed. a button that adapts just as much as a druid is supposed to. it makes you think about how to use it. maybe defensively. maybe go cat for single target offense. or find a opportunity to use it in caster form, healing the group. or change up the affinity choices and use for some owl weaving.
without it. you basically never do anything other than swipe and thrash regardless of situation.
but gear. gear is universal across expansions. its the type of borrowed power you keep with you for as long as you have it equipped. I have characters that still have gear from like cata. that power is still with them. scaling may change but the gear remains.
gear that granted you abilities like many artifact weapons did. thats borrowed power that hurts to loose. gear that alters existing abilities, thats less of an issue. its more of a talent.
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So like this new tier nonsense?
Do we completely throw out and reinvent the entire itemization system each expansion?
it’s power built on power. it’s not borrowed, it’s just creeping power.
Yea as other have said, it’s more like a talent/ability that gets removed after you got used to playing with it.
Now I need to always keep a slot in by bars for the next mega expansion ability.
Very good. You figured out that 2+2=4. Congrats!
They’re worse.
At least borrowed power are designed for everyone to unlock. Tier gear is borrowed power except gated by RNG.
The problem with tier isn’t that classes are broken without them. We played our characters fine in 9.0 - 9.1 without it.
The problem with tier is that it’s such a huge increase for some classes that they aren’t competitive without it. Not the same thing.
Also this entire line of thinking is flawed. Even if you could get everyone to accept that gear is absolutely equivalent to all other borrowed power, it’s not and all or nothing type of thing. Lots of things people are ok with in moderation. Borrowed power has gone nuts though in order to keep some form of check on ability bloat and inflation.
It’s a lot like RNG. Some is fun. Like critical strikes. RNG ON RNG ON RNG however removes too much player agency and people start feeling like they are just playing slots or something.
When people talk about borrowed power, they’re talking about SYSTEMS not gear. There’s a difference.
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It’s only correct if you are defining “borrowed power” literally and not by the accepted meaning of the term.
We use a paper doll system with various slots to represent pieces of equipment on different parts of the body. This equipment has statistical bonus and rare unique effects. It can also be upgraded when you find an item with higher statistical bonuses of more powerful unique effects.
We’ve had this system for two decades.
It is not “borrowed power.”
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I respectfully disagree. Gear is borrowed equipment, with powers (the primary attributes) that stay with us and grow from expac to expac.
This would be a smart/sound argument… if this statement was true. But it isn’t. So your whole argument falls apart.
Bear is pretty much broken without tier. You can’t play Venthyr this season without tier and your DPS is literally halved if you can’t play Venthyr in conjunction with Rage of the Sleeper and Architect’s Aligner.
Bear is completely c%%%%ed and does like zero DPS and has to play an alternate build just to maintain a hint of threat without tier.
Bear is broken without tier, especially when DPS classes have Season 3 gear and are doing Season 3 numbers. Bears were hanging by a thread in 9.1 in terms of threat and now that thread has been cut.
You’re missing the forest for the trees. When people rail against borrowed power, they aren’t talking about, say, conduits that will be replaced in the next patch. They’re referring to the entire framework for that system that will be thrown out and reinvented entirely with the next expansion.
We’ve had the same itemization system since the game’s inception. It has not changed. It has remained constant. Itemization as a system is not “borrowed power.”
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Gear is a supplement to your base character.
Class mechanics that make the class complete that disappear after an expansion are bad borrowed power.
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Tier has existed as a part of the Challenge Mode / Mythic Difficulty eco-system all of 1.5 years of the last 9 years.
Tier Sets have been turned off in PvP at various points in WoW’s history, as well as PvP having its own unique sets at various points.
Stop this dumb argument. This implementation of tier is not reflective of how tier “has always worked”.
I think you might be adding some preconceived notions from discussions you’ve had with other posters in your reaction to my post. My problems, or a lack thereof, with tier sets is completely immaterial to what I’m saying. Tier sets, no matter how well or poorly they’re implemented, are simply an element of the itemization system that has been present for two decades. The framework has existed throughout. We had iterated upon that framework, cut some there, added here… but it’s the same framework.
Okay. Sure. Gear is borrowed power. But it’s not systematic borrowed power. It’s a standard RPG mechanic. There is a difference and this argument is made in bad faith.
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