I don’t care what encourages cheaters.
They are cheaters end of story they should be banned.
I’m not going to support banning the best loot system because the wow community has zero self control and blizzard refuses to ban cheaters.
Most gold buyers are trash players anyhow - they get half bis, parse blue at best, and quit the game. It’s not even the issue players make it out to be.
Then we are at an impasse.
For talk of banning sellers and buyers, but happy to participate in a system that takes the gold of sellers and buyers.
Rome is burning. Might as well enjoy it.
That’s more apt for SoD, which let itself be influenced by the biggest snakes that promoted gdkp ban, premade ban, demanded exp boosts.
Era isn’t burning its doing great. Those who think it is are likely retail snakes that aren’t feeling welcome.
Don’t be a bigot
[1] Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen* of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.
[2] Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
[3] But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:
[4] That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly*.
[5] And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you*, They have their reward.
[6] But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly*.
Host a raid, then. If you really believe this to be the case, then host a raid for free. Or are you the sort of lazy communist that demands the labor of others because they are unable to motivate themselves to do anything at all?
Seriously, go host a 40 man raid with zero host cut. Out of the goodness of your heart, host raids 3 times a week. people will love you for it if you can pull it off. It should be easy! After all, the only thing you have to do is: Form it correctly, have a clear direction, maintain pace, keep morale, set reasonable prices, spot leeches/trolls, check logs for player errors, refine your approach, meet up with the standards of other popular raid leaders, train players who ask for advice or need it, build rapport, and remain calm under every circumstance no matter how many clown horns start to honk mid pull.
Everyone is welcome to chill in Era. I dont care about the beef. I’m just here to run some raids and hang out on discord.
After seeing the coordinated attack retail players did on SoD - I think we should be a bit careful.
If someone hates Era - maybe they should just stick to whatever game mode they currently play. I don’t think there any need to compromise the values of Era to make space for people who want to destroy the game mode.
I’ll ignore the insult
“Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?” - Mat7:3
Oh, but how I do. With RPB/CLA and logs. Going over mechanics and strats and learning class specifics. And fills and roster bosses, and loot drama and personal drama. And I take no cut. No guild bank stipend. I use raid helper and teach macros. I create spreadsheets and assignments. I do it all every week.
Great, glad you’re having fun. Keep on doing you.
But please don’t try to prevent others from raiding with the loot / organizational system that make sense to them.
Also, I’d love to see your naxx logs if you care to show the toon(s) you raid with. I’m interested how many actually bis players you have had show up consistently. This is the real raid longevity that matters, toons that want items will always show up for the loot.
https://vanilla.warcraftlogs.com/character/us/bigglesworth/xfour
All of the last year (except 1 naxx) has been with the same GDKP group (many of the same players). I’d love to see a pure SR with that kind of consistency. We have never had a single loot disagreement.
Truthfully it’s the only thing to do. I appreciate the conversation though and mean no ill will on any of you. I just disagree on where things are headed.
I respectfully bow out here as I believe we’ve both made our points and further discussion will just lead to more insults.
I agree that the battleground queues were ruined mainly because they added the STV event and other world PvP events, so no one queued for battlegrounds. Additionally, the classes were ridiculously overpowered, with players one-shotting each other, which made PvP far from enjoyable.
GDKPs are not the best! I recommend thoroughly reading my post above, which contains valid arguments to counter your opinion.
I dunno, my main is as BiS as I want it to be but I don’t seem to have any problems showing up to raid every week. Turns out I enjoy the company of my guild and helping others get the gear they’re after.
The interesting thing is, if you’ve been a BiS raider in the GDKP system for longer than a couple months, you’ve probably got more gold than you know what to do with. So is the gold you get from a GDKP run really all that motivating for you anymore? Probably not.
I am talking full bis, every slot.
It takes a ton of time to get there because for most classes the last few items are extremely contested (gressil, kiss, thc, eye of dead, slayer crest, rejuv gem, GoAs, etc.).
Unless someone is bis with all those rare items for their class - they are not bis - and they are attending raid is to get items.
It generally takes less time to get 90% bis then it take to get the last 10% - you can do 90% in like a few lockouts depending on who you raid with, but it can easily take a year to get full bis of weekly raids - if the last items don’t drop often and are highly contested.
It doesn’t matter if I check every box on whatever internet list you decide you want to compare me to, my character is done. There are no more pieces of gear that I feel like I need, or even want, for my main spec. Gear, or gold, is not why I come to raids.
So you are spending 1000 to 2000gold per week to pump in naxx and there’s zero items in there you would equip if they dropped?
That’s what people are asking of BiS toons when they want them to ‘raid for the love of it’. It is fun when there is even 1 item in the raid you want, but as soon as you all the drops it becomes a huge dread.
Yes I raided for month with my pally and I had gold to gear this warlock very quickly. And plenty left over to do other toons if I wanted.
The point is that my bis toon was rewarded every naxx raid. Without GDKP it would be simple, I would just never ever take my pally into naxx or any other raid because it is guaranteed lost of gold and time.
Who says I’m spending 1000 to 2000 gold per week?
The cost of consumes for a serious dps in naxx.
It can be a lot cheaper (for like a bis pally) but still at least 400g with flask and potions.
Two things…
"But Tubbly, " you ask, “how could you possibly farm up all the consumables you want for a raid?”
Well, Xdrain, allow me to offer you a few more insights…
/cast Summon Jarl-Grobbulus 
“Tubbly, that’s outrageious!” you exclaim. “I don’t want to waste my time farming, I just want to raid. Buying consumables lets me do that!”
Interesting, Xdrain… So there’s this game I used to play a long time ago that I used to really enjoy, it’s called Counter-Strike. Unfortunately, I just don’t have the time anymore to develop reliable and accurate aim, map knowledge, and game sense in order to play its highest levels. Should I be able to purchase something that allows me to bypass that time investment?
Perhaps I should just acknowledge that maybe high level Counter-Strike isn’t for me, or perhaps Counter-Strike itself isn’t for me at all. Maybe I should focus my time and energy on things that I can engage in order to find enjoyment in my free time.
I’m not disagreeing with your proposed way to enjoy the game, I’m fine with people doing that and will fight for their right to do so.
But GDKPs are equally valid way to play, and for some of us that prefer PVP over all other parts of the game it makes it possible to enjoy the game in a competitive way without buying gold.
Ban GDKPs and a lot of us will just go play another game because the other loot systems simply do not cut it.
SoD tried banning it and lost hundreds of thousands of players in the following weeks. Sure there were plenty of confounders, but to pretend that it isn’t a loot system with positives that a lot of people enjoy would be a bit wild.
Gear doesn’t make a player good - plenty of well geared players that suck at pvp in wow. If anything it is the norm.
But to be competitive you need to be 1) good 2) have gear 3) have gold to buy consumes, all three are necessary to play at the top level.
Most cheaters get gear but never get good so they quit really fast because it is extra embarrassing to be bad when one is fully geared.
Like any other tool, GDKP is only as good as the people using it. Its neither good nor evil but it can be used for both. The same can be said for every loot system, including open roll.
The good news is people like myself who loathe GDKPs and people who absolutely adore them can peacefully coexist.
If you got rid of GDKP tomorrow you wouldn’t get rid of gold buying so to me its a wasted gesture. If you stop worrying about it life gets better fast.
I fully agree, but there was a coordinated attack against GDKPs earlier this year.
We are likely to feel reverberation of it for years to come.