GDKP - The Correct Way To Think About Them

WoW Classic WoW Classic General Discussion
21

It’s not that players feel they shouldn’t have to form long-term relationships, it’s that forming a long-term relationship with 50 other people is not a realistic expectation for a video game to set.

Think about it - you have to rely on these people to show up. Not to quit. If they don’t show up, your game session could be ruined.

It’s just too many people for that type of mentality to work on a grand scale. And it doesn’t.

I’m in a guild in a Classic server right now trying to cultivate exactly what you’re saying. It’s been six months, tons of turnover, and we can field about 25 people per raid (pugging the rest).

That’s a 6 month journey just to get enough people together to START raiding…it’s a whole different ballgame.

Frankly, I’m part of the problem. I am more of a fill-in than reliable member. I sign up when I can. Once a week, maybe one every two weeks. I’m also a carry in the guild, meaning I have Naxx gear and know what I’m doing and top the charts.

There’s no problem at all if you like to get together with that many people long term and face those challenges, but it’s not a viable, scalable solution to keep the game alive.

I agree with a lot of what you’re saying, just not the premise that DKP, or SR, or Loot Council, or whatever guild friendly system you think of is a scalable solution to the problem.

Retail has tried some stuff like this. They’ll need to brainstorm better, because they also have to make sure not to lose the “thrill of the drop”. It’s a damned if you do, damned if you don’t type situation, but I’m SURE there are better solutions out there. No clue how much thought Blizz has put into though.

That said, I think they should put a lot of thought into it, because the survival of their game depends on it, and all they’re doing right now is making if stupid grindy like Diablo.

The problem with open rolls is you’re not incentivizing carries, and you need carries for consistent progression.

A totally open roll systems means you, who has no gear, gets maybe 10 chances to roll on an upgrade, and might win a few of them.

Me, who has lots of gear, gets maybe 1 chance to roll on the 1 thing I need, meaning there’s a LOT less incentive for me to come help, naturally.

At a macro perspective, the way human nature works, the best geared players (who also know what they’re doing) are now the least incentivized to come. But they’re also the most needed.

It’s a big problem.

22

Blizzard needs to perm ban anyone hosting GDKP to remove the RMT washed gold from their accounts and in lieu the game.
If you join a GDKP you are part of the problem, even if you’ve farmed gold legit the actual economy itself has become inflated due to the increased gold on my server Wool Cloth sells for 1g EACH

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23

If you want your way, you’re going to need to propose another way to solve the 40-man progression raiding problem as outlined in the OP.

Otherwise, that’s a fun opinion you have, but it doesn’t matter.

Problem: Those people hosting GDKPs need incentive (aka compensation) for all their hard work. Otherwise, they won’t do it, and those raids happen much more rarely, and people quit the game, and the game dies.

Solve the problem mate.

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24

You follow this with a statement that this just doesn’t work. In reality, it does… it worked back then and continues to work now for those who still choose to engage with the game that way.

The fundamental issue you’re describing here is a lack of trust.

It used to be that you had to trust… and yea, sometimes you’d get burned but most of the time you’d just find a bunch of cool folks to play with and stick around. Now, you don’t have to trust, you can buy your way into a group.

That doesn’t mean it’s a good thing though.

The unfortunate reality here is that you’re not playing the 2004-2006 game where the expectation is that you form communities and engage with them to experience the cotnent. You’re playign the 2024 version of the game where monetization is the norm but still trying to hold to those 2004-2006 ideals. Believe me, I know… I’m in the same boat.

People are treating the game differently right now because they can. So it makes it harder to go against that flow. In much the same way that it’s really, really hard to find a legit group for a dungeon that most people are paying for boosts, it’s really, really hard to find a guild who just wants to play the game and enjoy it with a group of people over a group where you can pay for a spot.

The latter is just the path of least resistance right now but that doesn’t mean it’s better. It’s not like we humans are known for making the choices that are best for us, just the choices that are easiest for us :smiley:

For clarity here, I’m not saying that DKP, SR, or even Loot Council is the best system. While I have my own preferences I don’t feel it’s appropriate to make a universal statement there, especially right now. I just wanted to challenge your view of DKP and its intentions, as well as the fact that GDKP is creating an unhealthy gaming environment in Classic Era.

25

Open roll with no additional considerations can be very unfair. You could play for months/years and never win an item.
I was in a large guild that had this loot method. Was very unlucky with the dice. In the meantime, people who had gotten gear on their mains started bringing in alts and won rolls on them. In the end, I was the lowest geared player and couldn’t progress.
(Just my opinion from my experience)

26

GDKP never existed up until like WOTLK Classic, game has been doing fine and SoD is a great example. Stop creating imaginary problems and it will happen sooner or later hope you sell off your gold reserves bud

27

This is incorrect.

28

The difference between 2004 (I was there, trying to raid, never made it past MC) and 2024 is that a person who is good at the game (like me) but doesn’t have the time to commit to a part-time job to get accepted to a raiding guild (like me) can actually go raid Naxx every now and then, so I keep paying my sub, because I like to play.

I’m telling you man, unless you keep people like me subbed, the game will die, because there aren’t enough people like you out there to make it worth it for Blizzard to keep it alive.

By people like you I mean people who have enough time and space to dedicate some portion of your life to align with the availability and consistency of schedule of 49 other people.

SoD player base has dropped off hugely after they:

  1. kicked raids up to 20 from 10
  2. banned GDKP

…which is exactly my point in the OP =)

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29

I’m curious. Is it really that difficult to schedule three hours of time to raid once a week?

30

I don’t know that I agree that the game should be allowed to follow unhealthy trends simply because it’s something people engage with. That’s a little bit of retroactive justificaiton and you can apply that pretty much anywhere. There’s a lot of talk about loot boxes in video games and whether or not they’re predatory. Should all of that talk be dismissed simply because they are popular and help fund game development?

It’s not my intention to open up that debate, only to point out that if we identified that GDKP wasn’t really a good thing (and I’m not saying that we have), then the game dying in its absence isn’t really an effective argument in its favour. Especially because you could argue with equal validity that the game will die because of it… it is, after all, only a temporary solution so long as people are willing to keep paying. So after that’s done and all the people who weren’t in favour of monetized WoW have quit, what’s left?

No, we really need to focus on the kind of game that we want to play.

The trouble here though is that Classic Era is static. While I don’t really like a lot of the ways that retail has attempted to change this, the bottom line is that change is needed. But should change happen in Era? It’s sole purpose is to exist and not change.

Look, I feel you here. This is also something that has evolved over the last two decades, but what people are asking for just to be brought to a raid is getting a bit out of hand. It’s a whole thing, it’s not great!

With that said, if your Monday and Friday evenings happen to be free, reach out and I’d be happy to tell you a community I found that’s just a group of chill, easy going folks happy to spend time together and clear content. They seem to have built a pretty good… Legacy… :sunglasses:

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31

You guys have out grown the game. Period. Now you are corrupting the game to fit your new life.

Also, another theme with the people who support this is the self centered attitude. The game will die if people like you stop playing? Really? Its all about you, the guy selling and buying loot, you are the savior of wow.

You are not. Get over yourself.

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32

You’re literally trying to ban a game mode that has been present for years. If anyone’s trying to corrupt the game to fit their new life it’s you.

I’m sick of people that don’t play era complaining about an optional game mode in era. Don’t like GDKP, don’t participate. It’s literally that simple.

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33

Yes, and this is how it should be. As I said, I have no more, nor less claim on any one oitem than the next guy, The item belongs to me if, and only if 1) it drops, and 2) I win the roll fair and square.

If you’re repeatedly unlucky the way you describe here - and I have been so too so I do understand your feeling - I would still not find that paying my way out of the situation would be a solution. I tried to ask my guildies to please consider passing on some of the gear that was an upgrade to me, it actually worked, but then we were a very laid back and pleasant guild.

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34

You seem to be telling other people that loot in their runs is not theirs because they don’t participate in a loot system that you approve of. That seems like a worse take than a person buying gear in a run where it was clear from the very beginning that gear was for sale.

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35

Loot in their run … the exact MINE! mentality I described - thanks.
Loot in a run does not belong to anybody but the one winning the roll. This is exactly what I’m saying, yes.

36

Loot in a run does not belong to anybody but the one winning the roll.

What makes you the arbiter of loot and why do you feel the need to boss around people who are playing by different rules than you?

37

I don’t. Only the runs I choose to participate in goes by this rule and of course - same as you - I think my system is superior and should be unversal.

If you all agree on paying, I stay away. If you reserve things, I stay away. It’s not a problem for me.

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38

I think my system is superior and should be unversal.

Anyone who’s tried running a successful guild in classic will tell you need before greed is quite literally the worst loot system. Bosses drop 2 pieces of gear, half of which are complete trash, and out of any raid you probably get less than 10 items that are actually good. People get pissed when they go 3 weeks without gear and have zero progress towards winning any additional gear. Then you have the folks that win everything and then roll a 100 when DFT drops, which is when your entire guild falls apart.

If you all agree on paying, I stay away. If you reserve things, I stay away. It’s not a problem for me.

Good. Don’t advocate for banning GDKP then. Maybe you aren’t but your rhetoric is the exact same nonsense that these control freaks are spouting. It’s not enough for them to not participate in the game, they want no one to participate in them.

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39

If you read carefully what I said previously - or now read this - Ill try to say it very clearly what I mean: I have never advocated for banning GDKP runs - I have said I do not like them, that I think they should not be the norm, or happen as often as they do - read on, please.

What I mind is the what I call MINE! mentality. LIke "I participate in this run to get MY ring. And I always say: That ring … It’s not yours yet. It has to drop, you have to win it. If people reply “No, it’s MINE!” I’m off.

I do not much mind GDKP (I think it is kind of immoral, as I think it can lead people to swiping - I would have to to participate in a GDKP-run, so I don’t - I haven’t got time to make that kind if in-game G) or really any other form of loot mastery … if people can agree. But I have experienced too much playing favourites, too much drama, too many broken Guilds over this MINE! mentality, and I think DKP/GDKP at least partially is strenghtening this mentality.

40

IM HEALED

The Word of Yeshuah has cured me of my wrong think.
I’m saved
…to this raid id already so I can’t cash out and get phat lewtz with our lord and savior.

How sad. Damnation for me.

1 Like