That’s exactly what I’m talking about, folks really liked him.
Thrall was raised by a human and wanted peace, which isn’t really what Orcs are about.
That’s not why people really played the Horde.
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Garrosh’s story makes Sylvanas’ story look like Shakespeare.
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Not a chance stretch pants
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At the time whenever Varian came back and started leading, I think it was around launch of Wrath, I thought they were literal carbon copies of each other. At least in how they behave.
Both are reckless and were held back by their peers.
“For the X!” is pretty much their catchphrase, both of them.
Even that Ulduar cinematic, and in Trial of the Crusader, they’re just flinging taunts at each other. ICC, they are interchangeable depending on which faction you are playing, during and after the Gunship Battle boss.
Something also occurs to me. Look at the villain in True Detective 1. Errol Childress was a true monster.
This is a character we’re supposed to not relate to in any way. Is not nationalist, is not a standup guy, is not something you can find redemption in for anything. Just a utter complete slime they shaped carefully over eight episodes. This is the key. He didn’t appear out of the blue. His story is plausible as he was an apple from a very rotten tree. So his trajectory was believable even if abhorrent.
Now I’m not saying WoW villains need to be THAT dark. But there is a way to craft a true evil that just exists in some unnatural state like a fragment of an explosion traversing space with the sole purpose of destroying what gets in its way.
Gul’dan comes to mind here. An awesomely written villain because they took time to craft him in a way his trajectory was certain even if abhorrent.
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I think that’s why Arthas is another fan favorite, everyone knows what he becomes and how, but we get to see exactly how, from start to end.
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With Varian, he had been kidnapped and had to fight for his life as a slave/gladiator.
That would make anyone have a hair trigger/attack first mentality.
Over time, he was able to move past it, evolve and actually become a leader (like when he made the choice to not attack the gathered horde leaders at the end of SoO cutscene, even as jaina encouraged it)
Garrosh just stayed the same. Sure, you could argue that he was being a good orc and doing orc stuff but he was a one trick pony: “ZUG ZUG ANGRY. ZUG ZUG SMASH! RAAHHHHHH”
There’s a certain point in his MoP arc that he was influenced by the Old Gods. So it’s hard to say that was him.
But he was pretty much a pro-Orc, anti-everything else which itself doesn’t make him a monster. The trouble is how the story is pancaked and makes that opaque.
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Idk, both of them also kinda appeared during Wrath as well, despite being pretty absent before hand. Varian has his Vanilla cameo moments and Garrosh in TBC, but they aren’t really WoW main characters until the start of Wrath.
Also, you should do Garrosh’s old questlines in Stonetalon, he did have some honor in him, or at least used to. When goblins drop that bomb on a young druid school, he flips out and kills his own orc commander that gave the ‘okay’ signal without his command, because he’s upset at killing young kids that can’t fight back.
It was such a good Garrosh moment.
At some point they changed his trajectory, I assume just to drive faction conflict, and it worked.
People that think Garrosh is a one-trick or one-sided character need to watch this video.
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Garrosh was no hero. A people’s right to exist does not come at the destruction of another. His methodology wasn’t ‘who will let me,’ but instead ‘who will stop me.’ That’s an unacceptable mindset in a leader.
Garrosh was awful, top-to-bottom, start-to-finish.
Well see that’s where it gets fuzzy.
Do a people have the right to usurp Orcs in their Orcish homeland? Do they have a right to exist on the doorstep of the Orcs changing their culture and customs, laws and order?
If so then every national hero around the world is your enemy. Nations exist. Ogrimmar is an Orcish home. Not a troll home. Not a goblin home. This is important.
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The Orcs owe their existence to the Horde as a whole. The Tauren and the Trolls have every right to be there and to exist among the Orcs. And if Garrosh wanted Orgrimmar to be Orc-only, then everyone else in the Horde becomes second-class, and what’s the correct solution then? Destroy Garrosh.
So all Garrosh would have accomplished is dividing the Horde further if not entirely annihilating it.
There are ways to bring your people up and secure their future that don’t involve alienating your allies and brutal warfare.
This isn’t good enough. You tell me that the other has a right to exist. But you find excuses to ensure they don’t.
What right? Defined where?
The Tauren have a home. So do the Trolls. So do the Goblins. So do the Vulpera and the Undead do now too.
Orgrimmar was an Orc city so nothing is really supposed to change there. Maybe weak leaders from time to time displace that but it should always lean Orc.
Destroying the character that cares for the future of the Orcs is telling me you don’t think Orcs had a right to exist in the first place. This is the antithesis of your first comment.
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Again, do the Orcs exist to subjugate the Tauren? The Trolls? Garrosh was entirely of the mind to conquer them if they did not bow to him. This is why he drew the ire of both Cairne and Vol’jin.
If Orgrimmar is to be an orc-only city, it cannot be the seat of the Horde any longer.
That depends on what’s horde and what isn’t.
I do think the Tauren and Orcs and Trolls and Goblins and so on would have remarkable differences that in the story should produce fractures. That would make for better story too.
But to the idea of what it means to be Horde this gets very fuzzy when you just have everyone in the Horde. If everything is Horde then nothing is.
The Tauren and Trolls have a lot in common with the Orcs. That made the original story so good. The Horde as an identity made sense.
I don’t see why this has to be the case. For most of the life of the Horde they did have an Orc leader.
Ummm the Tauren and the Troll would have all been long dead without the Orcs.
The Tauren were almost wiped out by the Centaur, the Orcs took them in and put the smackdown on the Centaur.
The Darkspear were an outcast tribe, one of the weakest and near extinction before the Orcs came along.
The Orcs didn’t need them, they darn near wiped out the Humans on their own when they came through the Dark Portal.
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Does comic garrosh add anything?
Alliance players liked him, sure.
Except the Tauren are not warmongers, something Garrosh practically demanded. This nature led Cairne to literally duel Garrosh to the death with every intent of cutting him down. The Trolls have seen what this kind of ambition brings; ruin and death. Thrall impressed Vol’jin and managed to help him lead the Darkspear from the edge of extinction and debauchery. Garrosh would have easily had them return to their cannibal ways if it meant they would be better shocktroopers. These are fundamentally incompatible differences that would ultimately lead to a split that would then result in the Orcs’ annihilation.
Until they ran headlong into the war machine that was the greater Alliance. Then they got stomped so badly they got put in camps out of pity. It’s only the continued support of the Tauren and Trolls that keeps the Horde remotely competitive with the Alliance or respectable on the stage at large.
Garrosh was a comic. Just not intentionally.
(Also, that happened in-game, at the end of BC.)
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