Hi guys! I’m deciding which alt to lvl and some playing but I was having a hard time.
I don’t care about numbers since it will be an alt so not aiming for m raiding nor keys higher than 15. What I’m interested is the gameplay between this two specs.
I leveled a pala to 112 and will get it to 120 but I was checking frost dk and it seems similar in many things. Yeah ret is a builder spender, but I find myself with a lot of downtime when my abilities are on CD. Frost seems slower but I felt i wasn’t having so much downtime.
So I thought to come here and ask you. Which one has a faster pace gameplay? How is that gameplay? Ret feels bursty and then it becomes slower, frost has this or is it a more constant pace? Which one has the less downtime??
Ty in advance!
I’ve been contemplating what my main will be for shadowlands, DK and pally are in the running. So far I enjoy dk more in frost spec due to feeling more fast pace than ret. Ret does feel slower, but templars verdict feels pretty powerful. I tend to have more downtime with ret, as it does need haste to make it feel smoother, but it hasn’t been too much of a problem. Overall, I want to like ret more, but I do feel like it’s missing something, and I just end up playing my dk instead.
I have a Ret alt purely for farming purposes, but it is 120 with several essences, and ~420 ilvl.
I cannot stand the playstyle. It’s excruciatingly slow and boring. I checked out a few guides, and it doesn’t seem like Haste is an especially high priority that I’m missing, or anything. The spec just appears to operate that slowly on purpose for some reason. If you like a more methodical playstyle, Ret might be for you. But if you want more GCDs filled, or a higher interaction, then Frost is probably a better bet.
I’ve felt sort’ve this with ret but they are both kind’ve like that in a way. Ret is on the shelf for me at least until shadowlands.
I’ve been watching some Shadowlands and ret seems moderately better and not as slow as now, seems to be getting a lot of praise. Lot’s of good things that’s baseline for paladins now.Most of the things that are weird are the talents aren’t too good and ret aura sucks, people still want exorcism back. Also, too many GCD’s. Aura’s have GCD’s and it feels bad. still over all needs some work, but I’d probably say, currently, it at least looks better than frost DK personally.
Frost, it’s getting some solid stuff but not seeming as well rounded yet and still missing things. Gameplay is still the same over all and dnd wouldn’t really be used. No big obliterate. Got frostwrym fury back. can sacrifice ghoul for hp, lichborne and death coil to heal yourself. It’s not having good damage for a lot of skills atm but we shall see how it will be tuned by live.
I think Frost needs more work before I’d consider it as a main. There are some holes that need to be addressed at the fundamental level. I think generally speaking, ret brings a lot more to the table. Word of Glory, Cleanse, and Flash of Light let you support your group and can be gamechanging in M+, which is something I very, very much miss when I’m not playing my Paladin.
So my main is a Ret and my first alt is unholy. I like both playing styles for different reasons. Frost is fun because if your stats are stacked correctly, you get a lot of procs, and that always hits the dopamine centers of the brain, along with a crit which is also enjoyable. I will be leveling both of those toons before my other 3 for sure.
To answer your question, yes, Ret is super bursty, even when you have your crit level up to 30% (mine at 21% currently) and your haste equally as high. Dk’s dps out performs ret every day of the week. So if you’re looking for just dps, go dk. If you’re looking for a different type of rotation but lower dps, got ret. I have always enjoyed ret and have been playing this spec since cata.
Not sure if that helps, but those are my thoughts.
I would disagree with your assertion that haste isn’t needed. my haste is currently at 27% and I find that it definitely helps with rotations. Also, its very dependent on how you are utilizing the Azerite traits. If you don’t have Empyrean power in all 3 pieces of gear, you’re wasting your time and effort. Feel free to look at my specs to decide. Not that I’m geared amazingly (453 currently), and not that I expect my ilvl to get much higher at this point.
I didn’t log out in my Ret gear, I don’t think, but it’s 470 as I have all the 480 azerite pieces and a 465 weapon for ret. Anyway, Ret has excellent ST burst within Avenging Wrath, and incredibly strong AOE with the Empyrean Power azerite trait. It’s well rounded, but I don’t like it as much as a geared, haste heavy Unholy DK. Your mileage may vary, but overall I put up better ST numbers (especially in M+) with my DK. However, AOE in M+ is pretty even, and I can pull off massive overall damage with my Ret by basically facerolling, while it takes a lot of set up and more precision with my DK. You have to work a bit harder for it. I find Paladin to be easier, with massive burst in avenging wrath, and amazing sustained aoe with divine storm + empyrean power. DK can do comparable and/or better damage, but it’s just not quite as easy to pull off.
^^ My dk is better geared than my pally, and I find it more fun to play simply because there is a bit more setup involved in the rotation as most of the damage is built into passive cooldowns, or lies in conjunction with the use of multiple interacting abilities like festering wound, scourge strike, and death and decay. It is by no means a huge jump in terms of learning the rotation and pulling it off in a hectic cleave environment, but it’s also not as easy as building up holy power then using avenging wrath, pressing your divine storm button and blasting out massive aoe damage.
As for frost, it’s strong and on par in terms of ease of use as ret. Instead of spamming diving storm for aoe (after building holy power), you’ll spam frostscythe. Frost is strong and really beginner friendly; especially if you use icecap instead of breath of sindragosa. I like playing frost in pvp, but I much prefer unholy for pve.
edit looks like I logged out in my pvp frost set. When wow gets back up this dk should be updated in unholy gear.
Ret with DP, and EP are really fun. The procs really help to minimize the issue with HP generation, and break up the monotonous rotation. I.cant help but feel like enhancement t should play like this, and ret should be moving to a CD resource spec, but I enjoy that playstyle either way.
To clarify, I didn’t mean that Haste wouldn’t have an impact on the fluidity of the rotation (it’s clearly designed with that goal by reducing CDs on you main rotational abilities), but that Haste itself didn’t appear to be a hugely recommended stat. Just to reference the WoWhead guide written by Rebdull, they refuse to even mention a relative stat priority, instead citing individual sims. If Haste were to have a baseline that we should aim for, or have some priority before other stats, then I would have expected to see that there, and not a stance that the stats were too fluid to make even a general recommendation. I’m not claiming to be an expert on Ret, or trying to say that you’re wrong, just referencing what I found in a few guides.