Personally, I don’t really care for hard modes in any version of vanilla, and I don’t think they belong at all due to the fact that every single player already has a personal difficulty slider that can be changed by using less or more world buffs and consumables. Trying to make raids that cater to the smaller, sweatier, more hardcore portion of the playerbase leaves it divided, often kills guilds, and makes people quit the game. Look no further than the ulduar release in wotlk if you doubt this (just for context I am one of the hardcore sweats telling you not to cater to me.)
That said, I think a way to create a “hard mode” that would feel much more like 2019 vanilla classic, would be to lock SOME new raid cosmetics behind a time limit on the raid. Just like how in ZA (burning crusade) you had to clear the instance fast enough to earn the mount.
I think that speedrunning and preparation and innovation that are tied to it are really good for the game. It creates an actual team based goal and every week becomes a fun new race for the fastest groups. It incentivizes team play instead of selfishness like the current parsing meta, and unlike using modifiers to change the raid, it should never create a “wall” for casual guilds, as they might not hit the speed timer, but they will still almost certainly clear any unmodified (or slightly freshened up like BWL) classic content.
Another idea I have for a “hard mode” would be an option to DISABLE world buffs, thereby making the raid significantly harder, in exchange for increased rewards. As I said earlier, there is already a difficulty slider in the game, and I think it would be healthy to use it, rather than bringing in the retail-esque changes we’ve had so far.
Thanks
OGB out.
I personally care for harder modes, even like the idea of rewarding that harder clear with exclusive items. Everyone has an opinion, also everyone has an option. I kinda like the idea of having a drop from the last boss that allows for the harder raid to be unlocked. So semi locked progression. Like I said everyone has an opinion.
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Nothing wrong with that. I vastly prefer speed incentives to “hard” fights that often are incorrectly tuned, bugged, or simply just not fun due to any number of various things like boss mechanics with the same color as the floor for example (looking at you molten core). I also find it problematic that with a truly hard fight, sure it might feel good to get your first kill, but now you have to do it again every week and that feeling doesn’t come back, in fact it makes people quit the game in many cases, ESPECIALLY if continuing to kill the boss every week also involves wiping a few times (which it usually does, the first kill doesn’t mean you are now perfect). A great example of this is Heroic Lich King in wrath. Felt good to kill him and then you absolutely dread going back and spending time still wiping on him.
When you speedrun, EVERY raid has stakes and is a chance for your team to put forth a new record clear time. There are always new strategies to try and ways to push the envelope further.
How do you feel about cthun now in sod? We cleared first week before nerfs and/or fixes. Not sure even what to call that fight pre-nerf. Was it bugged or just more difficult? I feel like we just bulldoze it now. I see your point on having to re-clear every week and the drag but unless its an RNG fight its also just as boring. I think once we got cthun down prenerf he would be killed 1shot reguardless, just had to prog through it. But curious to know what ppl think post-nerf cthun now.
My only problem with “pre-nerf” SoD C’thun still exists, but the things that I had no problem with were changed. I think giant eyes should have been interruptable. Not stunnable, or silenceable, just interruptable. I don’t find it to be a satisfying mechanic to have people solely in one position of the room without the ability to move from their zone. It causes some players to be mostly out of the fight. If they could be kicked, even with large health pools, you can continue to play your characters instead of sometimes having immense down time. Or, had they left the small eye spawns the way they were, those players in a zone may have something to do still.
I think he was slightly over nerfed, and to be honest if I were in charge of nerfing aq the first thing I’d have done is nerf the trash to allow people more time spent at bosses. I think this is a problematic thing with aq that makes players feel their time is not respected when they want to prog.
However, I believe that with very limited time to make a functional raid after release, the heavy nerfs were justified due to unresolved bugs that can still cause a lot of pain. Without being sure they have good bug fixes for everything needed, the nerfs were the right call.
i agree with both of you, mechs weren’t impossible but def could use some consistency. HOPEFULLY if a fight is over-tuned or even buggy… that doesnt mean nerf to non-existence. Wouldnt hurt to retune after a nerf also
PLZ dont make naxx any less hard than naxx on classic. just finshed our 4th week on aq sod and it was such a joke…