Icy veins says with Cold Steel trait, Crit is top stat, but when I sim, it wants to put in haste and mastery. Is icy veins wrong?
how many cold steel traits you got?
Each trait of CSHB increases the value of crit, no two ways about that. The more traits you have of it the more value crit will be given with the generally accepted understanding is that you need two traits of it for Crit to be the clear winner. Assumingly if you went three traits (you shouldn’t) it would increase the value even more.
It’s best to spread your traits out because most of our traits don’t stack in one way or another. One simmering rage, one unbridled ferocity (worst one to stack), one CSHB while focusing on overwhelming power traits and using reckless flurry as the default “I can stack this” trait. Unless you’re lucky as all get out you won’t pull this off perfectly though.
Absolutely reliable guides are hard to come by, these days. Even aside from the massive individual variation from Azerite traits, the value of secondary stats often fluctuates in relation to one other.
What that means is, imagine you have secondary stats A, B, C, and D. A is your best stat and C is a dump stat but B and D somewhere in between. If you have too much the value goes down but if you have too little the value goes up, and the sweet spot is keeping them at about a 2:1 ratio with A.
For an example of why, consider Fury. Haste is valuable because it helps you have more Enrage uptime. As your Enrage uptime increases the value of Mastery increases, because Mastery makes that uptime more powerful. In the abstract Haste is more valuable than Mastery because Mastery is weak without a lot of Haste, but once you HAVE a lot of Haste you hit a point where a little more Haste is less powerful than getting some Mastery to compliment it.
So tl;dr - generally trust your personal sims. Sims have their limitations you need to remain aware of, but guides are even more blind and limited.
This really isn’t true. Haste is a pretty linear stat as far as stats go. This bit you said here as well
Isn’t really accurate as a blanket statement either. Vers and Haste really aren’t going to gain or lose value by having less or more, mastery depedent on spec. Versatility is the most prime example. 1% more damage is 1% more damage whether you have 8999% of it or 1% of it.
Stats synergize with each other and thus compliment each other to the extent that more of one stat means the other stats benefit from it so that will increase all of your stat weights, but having more haste isn’t going to devalue haste because haste doesn’t suffer from DRs. Haste is largely going to be impacted by a breakpoint (if you have one). You will notice that your stats will fluctuate for one reason or another while gearing, but in haste’s case it’s really not going to be because you have enough and it doesn’t go as far anymore.
A better example is critical strike rating. When you have 95% crit another % isn’t very interesting, but if you have 95% haste an extra % of haste will still give the same value as the first percent did. But that doesn’t really have anything to do with trying to boost other stats, that’s just because crit suffers from DR.
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It’s about relative values. Haste may stay about the same but Mastery will go up or down in relative status to it, which in turn changes your gearing priorities.
Also, my abstract blanket statements were meant to depict a common situation that various classes and specs can find themselves in, not a picture of Fury specifically with the names taken off. I felt we’d veered into someone more abstract theorycrafting.
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Icy vein gives a general priority, but that changes based on the stats you currently have. If you have crit heavy, your mastery will likely weigh more even with CSHB.
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Don’t sim stat weights. Only use Top Gear.
I’m not sure if I agree with your wording you provided, but that’s true enough.
Haste is not linear. It hits breakpoints and can go up or down drastically in value. Mastery goes up or down in value relative to your haste, shooting up or down in turn.
Yes, and I pointed that out. When I said linear I meant it doesn’t suffer from DRs like crit and some masteries do (albeit when I look at them I don’t think there are many that do anymore). Maybe a poor choice of words on my part, but I’m not sure how else I’d word it.
I know breakpoints exist today, but they’re not nearly as obvious as they used to be. #backinmyday you had DoT and HoT breakpoints that were very obvious and that would clearly give you a goal to reach for because haste value would plummet between the breakpoints. With DoT breakpoints today you still get value out of haste between DoT breakpoints so those breakpoints are less interesting and other breakpoints (for instance getting a # of rampages off in during Recklessness) are less obvious.
Honestly I don’t know if I’ve really read a lot about people discussing breakpoints for a while now. There doesn’t seem to be anyone talking about aim for X haste for this breakpoint for that kind of stuff. Pre-WoD days any class that had a DoT/HoT or two had a chart for haste breakpoints. Affliction, Shadow, and RDruids among others lived and died by them.
I’m running 3xCSHB @ 410 equipped and my stat weights are crit>mastery>haste . Crit being substantially higher. I think, as noted above, and in my experiences with most classes and specs that depending on your ilevel, combination of traits, and talent selection your stat weights can drastically vary and nothing is set in stone. Ultimately, at the very higher end of gear, ilevel (with the exception of socketed items because they are broken AF) should most likely dominate. I know it’s a broken record here, but sim your character frequently and I’m sure you will find this to be the case most of the time.
Don’t run stat weights.
1 CsHb raises the value of crit by a lot, 2 makes it drastically so. 3 CsHb throws everything out the window and makes crit the only stat you care about, to an extent. I have personally seen top gear sims put people with 3x leave them at 10-13% haste. Fun stuff
Is that build worth it compared to say Reckless Flurry + TC builds?
Would stacking that much crit and having that little haste make furious slash a viable talent for that build?
I currently have 1 simmering rage, 1 coldblood, 1 reckless flurry, 1 swirling sand, 1 unbridled ferocity, 1 treacherous covenant.
17% crit, 23% haste, 39% mastery.
Stat weights for crit, haste, and mastery are within .02 dps of each other.
id really love to do a 1 reckless fury, 1 simmering, and 1 unbridled ferocity with 3 cold blood but i only have 1 set of 415 gear atm.
There is no gold rule for gearing you just have to sim stuff.
Is there a reason Stat Sims aren’t useful?
RaidBots has an in depth break down of why simming top gear is superior to stat weights.
Stat weights are a guideline while top gear will set you up based on what’s in your bags.
Aarrg that sounds like a hot mess. I could be wrong but I’d find it hard to believe it would be a dps loss if you were able to stack reckless flurry and lose some of the other ones.
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I find Stat Weights are a useful indicator of what gear you should try to get, while Top Gear is what you use to pick from the gear you already have. Both have their place.
Droptimizer will always be better than stat weights. Basically anything you can do on raidbots besides stat weights will be more useful and accurate than stat weights. If you don’t care about min/max then just get pawn and do what it tells you.
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