Fury warrior DF talent concerns

while this list does not go over everything that could be improved (tuning, pathing, etc), these are my biggest concerns with the fury DF talent tree:

  1. The biggest one: Secondary stat increasers in the bottom section. After glancing through some of the other class trees, I quickly realized that warriors (both arms and fury), are the only specs that start the bottom section of their trees off with secondary stat enhancers. Now while on paper getting more stats doesn’t seem like a bad thing, it is straight up BORING. No other class trees have them, they consist of ability enhancing nodes that reflect the branch they are going down, where as warriors are simple secondary stat increasers which do nothing to actually enhance gameplay. The other big issue with this, is the fact they are double nodes. This means, that at MINIMUM, warriors are using 4 of their final nodes, just to simply enhance secondary stats to get down the tree further to the fun stuff. That’s 40% of your final section nodes simply wasted!

  2. Another big one; Too many baseline nodes in the fury tree. While the last build worked towards making this better, it is still a very concerning issue specific to the fury tree. In the current build, Fury has a total of 10 nodes, almost all of which are essential/required to take, that were literally baseline in current content (these include: Bloodthirst, Raging blow, Improved execute, Rampage, TG/SMF, Improved enrage, Improved raging blow, Enraged regeneration, Recklessness, and finally Improved whirlwind). In total, this is 1/3 of our total nodes, or 33% of our nodes that we have to use to literally do what a shadowlands warrior does with 0 talents used. This can easily be fixed by baking in these nodes into the baseline ability (make fury execute generate rage by default, make warrior’s whirlwind do the improved version by default like how it is currently in shadowlands, etc), so we don’t have to waste so many nodes just to feel normal!

This makes you think what kind of power is fury actually getting from the talent tree, which is even worse considering how TG/SMF work. TG fury warriors lose 2 non-baseline nodes that do nothing for them (annihilator and frenzied flurry), and SMF warriors lose essentially any node that affects raging blow. A VAST majority of the top 2 sections are either baseline abilities/enhancers, or nodes we are restricted to not use due to being TG or SMF. Add in the secondary stat complaint from the first concern, most of the nodes we are FORCED to take do absolutely nothing to enhance fury warriors from their baseline shadowlands version.

  1. This one is less important, but more nit-picky, but I feel Annihilator/frenzied flurry should swap places with Cadence of Fujieda/Sidearm, for 2 reasons: a) For how incredibly strong Annihilator and frenzied flurry are, they really should be in the bottom section in a final node spot, and b) for how restrictive they are. Since both these nodes require you to use SMF, they should be down at the bottom and specifically require you to travel down the tree to specialize in that specific build/gameplay.

  2. Requiring to take fresh meat to get ‘cold steel, hot blood’. While CSHB can be used in all gameplay, fresh meat is pretty much exclusively a M+ talent, and being forced to take it get CSHB feels like a complete waste in a raid environment. This is even worse for those who chose to path down the SMF build, as taking frenzied flurry extremely devalues fresh meat’s value even more to making it pretty much useless, forcing you to waste a node you get 0 value out of just to get CSHB.

Overall, the fury tree has some nice surprises mixed in it… however it really seems to have no flow, and really comes off very boring when half the nodes you use are to get what was once baseline, or passive secondary stat enhancers you are forced to take.

2 Likes

Fury has too many current abilities chopped up into “talents”. I fail to see why bloodthirst, raging blow, rampage and whirlwind are on this tree. If the philosophy of the talent trees is player choice, then why are abilities that you HAVE to take in order for the spec to function properly in the tree in the first place? Where is the agency in that? You don’t see mages having to put a point into frost bolt or fireball lmao. Does blizzard really want the player to build a fury warrior without rampage or whirlwind?

Another point is that blizzard has already stated that they want TG to be the most optimal build, in which case that will most likely force most players down the right/middle side of the tree. It’s obvious the left side is a more SMF/Bloodthirst build. They either need to rework single minded furry or just get rid of it entirely. IMO the whole fantasy of a fury warrior is TG anyway since no other spec can duel wield 2handers. Maybe with the proper tuning or changes they can either make SMF on par with TG or make TG base line and remove SMF, thus letting the player decide towards a raging blow or bloodthirst build that synergizes with TG.

2 Likes

I think the bigger question is whether there’s even supposed to be an alternative to Rampage.

If we could actually go with a no-Rampage build, where all of Rampage’s current effects were broadened to being based instead on Rage consumption (for which Rampage’s burst consumption would nonetheless be favored in most cases), then the likes of a basic (non-Fury) Whirlwind, Execute, etc. could make sense. Heck, you could throw in Wild Strikes as an excess Rage spender opposite Rampage on a choice node.

But, so long as we’re only really to be given the choice of…

  1. mostly current Fury but without Bladestorm and
  2. lobotomized SMF Fury

…then why the separation?

Personally, I’d rather have more build variety, but if we’re not going to have it, then we should at least have variety available through small additions and utility, for which making the “Improved {Baseline Fury Skill}” talents baseline could go a long way.

3 Likes

I felt the same way looking through the tree, seems like a nerf in disguise

Don’t forget that pre Panda Land (Mists), you actually had to talent into quite a bit of the specs’ core abilities.

Kind of how trees worked back then.